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Every week someone gets killed at this particular corner. Every week. Usually a ped. Usually at night. Its been going on since before I've lived in Hillsboro. I suspect that intersection in Portland is similarly unfair to non-motorized traffic and that is why cyclists run the stop sign just to get a chance to get across the road. Whatever.
While it's 2010-2011 data ... according to the site, Washington County had THIRTEEN total traffic fatalities.
Wouldn't weekly accidents at just that one location, make the total well over 52? I mean, I can't imagine it's the only location where accidents ever happen.
If bicycle safety is something you are passionate about outside of complaining
about it on the internet, I suggest you be a part of the solution and look into
one of the many programs already going on in Oregon to promote and teach bicycle
safety.
Having people over 16 get a license to bike would detour people
from wanting to bother with biking, it would create an unnecessary level of
bureaucracy, and it would do nothing to solve any problems.
Well, I happen to know that many radio and television personalities, and also city officials, lurk on this forum to see what questions are being asked about Portland, and gauge the Portland's citizens feelings on current local issues.
I know this because I have several past colleagues that work as engineers at radio and tv stations.
So, my complaining about the Springwater Corridor safety issue on this forum may actually be helping in the long run, but how can someone complaining about someone complaining on the internet be taken seriously?
At least I am identifying a problem area, and someone may be reading this that has the resources to do something about it.
It's got to start somewhere, right?
To address your negatism about licensing, I can assure you that within the next few years, as the cycling population in Portland increases, there WILL be some sort of regulation and licensing, just to standardize the confusing mix of rules, as is done with cars, and that will have the affect of improving cycling safety.
Also, as the politicians realize what a deep pool of money there is in the cycling community, and how much taxpayer money is being spent on cyclists,.....I am sure there will be a "road fee" or "tax" added to the purchase of bicycles to go along with the above.
Let kids have fun and ride bikes all they want! Teach them safety!
I do not consider a 16 year old a child anymore. I consider them to be crossing the line into young adulthood.
We require a license to drive a car when you are sixteen, right?
If we still consider 16 year olds to be kids, why are we letting that happen?
When the kids graduate from a kids bike to a real road bike and start riding to school, work, etc., they will have to share the road and deal with adults in an adult world.
At this point a bicyle ceases to be a toy.
It becomes one of the mix of many types of vehicles on the road, which does not belong disproportianally to cyclists, but belongs equally to everyone using it.
I don't see an issue requiring someone that rides a bike daily, interacting with cars, pedestrians, and other cyclists to prove that they are competent to do so.
I would love to see what would happen if a new form of transportion develops that irritates the cyclists, and starts using the same bike paths and resources they do, any way they want to...rules be damned.
Turn the tables and I wonder what the cyclists comments would be?
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 05-18-2014 at 04:59 PM..
Well, I happen to know that many radio and television personalities, and also city officials, lurk on this forum to see what questions are being asked about Portland, and guage the Portland's citizens feelings on current local issues.
I know this because I have several past colleagues that work as engineers at radio and tv stations.
So, my complaining about the Springwater Corridor safety issue on this forum may actually be helping in the long run, and the last person I am going to take seriously is someone complaining about someone that's complaining on the internet.
At least I am identifying a problem area, and someone may be reading this that has the resources to do something about it.
It's got to start somewhere, right?
Well then you have made a valid complaint about something on the internet in hopes that some random talk radio will talk about it. That doesn't really solve any problems, actually being involved in the issues does. If bicycle safety education is that important to you, I suggest you get involved beyond just posting on the internet.
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To address your negatism about licensing, I can assure you that within the next year or two, as the cycling population in Portland increases, there WILL be some sort of regulation and licensing, just to standardize the confusung mix of rules, as is done with cars, and that will have the affect of improving cycling safety.
I doubt that. Though there might finally be a separate set of rules put in place for bicycles which is needed, but don't expect to see any licensing created.
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Also, as the politicians realize what a deep pool of money there is in the cycling community, and how much taxpayer money is being spent on what cyclists consider a "free ride"....I am sure there will be a little "road fee" or "tax" added to the purchase of bicycles to go along with the above.
Let kids have fun and ride bikes all they want! Teach them safety!
Do you look at pedestrians as people who are also enjoying a "free ride" because they walk where they need to go and aren't paying taxes for those things they walk on? Of course not because that idea is a false one. Cyclists pay taxes just like motorists do, therefore they have just as much of a right to use the roads as cars do. Also the wear and tear bikes do to asphalt is minimal while cars destroy them at at much faster rate which requires more upkeep which costs taxpayers more money.
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I would love to see what would happen if a new form of transportion develops that irritates the cyclists, and starts using the same bike paths and resources they do, any way they want to...
Turn the tables and I wonder what the cyclists comments would be?
So basically you are hoping there is something that comes along for cyclists to generalize and complain about? That will probably never happen because most cyclists don't blame problems on an entire group of people. When someone does something stupid in a car, I don't blame all motorists for that one person's stupidity.
Maybe it is time for you to accept bicycles as being a viable form of transportation in the state and understand the importance of sharing the road with them when you are driving to and from your destinations. Be aware of those around you is one of the best lessons you can teach yourself when it comes to safety.
Well then you have made a valid complaint about something on the internet in hopes that some random talk radio will talk about it. That doesn't really solve any problems, actually being involved in the issues does. If bicycle safety education is that important to you, I suggest you get involved beyond just posting on the internet.
It' a hell of a lot more than complainng about me complaing.
I doubt that. Though there might finally be a separate set of rules put in place for bicycles which is needed, but don't expect to see any licensing created.
That's what they used to say about boats.
Do you look at pedestrians as people who are also enjoying a "free ride" because they walk where they need to go and aren't paying taxes for those things they walk on? Of course not because that idea is a false one. Cyclists pay taxes just like motorists do, therefore they have just as much of a right to use the roads as cars do. Also the wear and tear bikes do to asphalt is minimal while cars destroy them at at much faster rate which requires more upkeep which costs taxpayers more money.
What about deicated bike paths, the engineering and physical resources required of the city that go specifically and only for bikes? Is that fair that no one that cycles gets the beneifit?
So basically you are hoping there is something that comes along for cyclists to generalize and complain about? That will probably never happen because most cyclists don't blame problems on an entire group of people. When someone does something stupid in a car, I don't blame all motorists for that one person's stupidity.
Why not? It's seems like a very fair question, when you think about it.
Maybe it is time for you to accept bicycles as being a viable form of transportation in the state and understand the importance of sharing the road with them when you are driving to and from your destinations. Be aware of those around you is one of the best lessons you can teach yourself when it comes to safety.
I certainly do.
THat's why I think that cycling be finally brought beyond being a "hobby" and cyclists have to finally realize that they are palying in the big leagues and acxept responsiblitiy for their un safe actions.
I certainly do.
That's why I think that cycling be finally brought beyond being a "hobby" and cyclists have to finally realize that they are playing in the big leagues and accept responsibility for their unsafe actions.
Do some research on
Well you can continue to blame bicycles all you want, but the actions of cyclists are no different of the actions of motorists and pedestrians, they all have people who do unsafe things.
Also, you might not realize this, but most people in Oregon that commute by cycle also own cars and pay those taxes as well. Biking isn't something that is free, though it saves someone lots of money to bike regularly over driving, as well as makes someone healthier with the amount of exercise that they get from their commutes.
This discussion of the problem between cars and bikes is one that is occurring in other cities that have a high percentage of bicycle commuters.
It has been acknowledged that both groups have a percentage of users that, for various reasons, fail to adequately take into account other users rights and/or safety.
In any case, the most physical damage is usually to the bike/bicycle rider and not the car/driver or passengers .
This is a key reason why in cities such a Boulder, Colorado there has been an ongoing city project to increase the number of bike paths that do not intersect with any car traffic.
This can be expensive, but makes for a much safer and more pleasant experience for both cyclists and motorists, while dramatically decreasing the number of car vs. bike collisions.
However, this is not an overall panacea, since, as mentioned by a previous poster, this leads to an increasing problems between bikers and pedestrians on the 'bike/pedestrian' paths, with many cyclists visibly resenting pedestrians slowing them down.
Portland is not alone is trying to find ways for peds, bikes, and cars to travel together in the city.
It's always going to be a challenge, due to the lack of original planning by the city, as mentioned by a previous poster.
The good news is that cities around the country are coming up with innovative ways to enable all forms of transit to coexist with less and less safety issues.
Well you can continue to blame bicycles all you want, but the actions of cyclists are no different of the actions of motorists and pedestrians, they all have people who do unsafe things.
How many time do I have to tell you that I agree with you 100% on this, and I realize that it is the individuals and not the whole that tend to give a group a bad rep?
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Do some research on what?
I was going to say, do some research on how Oregon handled boating.
It used to be that one could just buy a boat, new or used, and just take it down the the rivers and lakes and have at it.
Of course, back then there weren't so many boaters as there are today and it wasn't really a problem.
Once the population around here increased, there got to be a ton of boats on the water, a lot of people had no idea what they were doing, and it started causing some big problems.
Life threatening, dangerous problems.
You had a whole bunch of people making their own rules, and some of them were dying because of the lack of stringent, regulated, boater education.
The State of Oregon implemented mandatory boater safety classes.
Now, to operate a boat in Oregon, you are required to take this Boater's Safety class either in person and online.
I believe it costs about 40 bucks, and the money is put back into boating and boater safety issues.
The State is careful to let you know that it isn't a license, but you are required to take this course if you wan't to drive a boat around.
It's a pain in the arse, costs money, but believe me, the small amount of effort it takes makes what you learned during the course stick with you.
Woe is the boater that gets stopped for a safety check, accident, or violation and does not have proof that they took the course on them.
Big fines etc...
They did this for boaters, and there are a lot fewer of them than there are cyclists.
And both activities can be life threatening dangerous in their own ways.
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Also, you might not realize this, but most people in Oregon that commute by cycle also own cars and pay those taxes as well. Biking isn't something that is free, though it saves someone lots of money to bike regularly over driving, as well as makes someone healthier with the amount of exercise that they get from their commutes.
How can I not realize this? Really? You are asking me that?
I'll tell you what, next time I can drive my vehicle across "The Tilikum Crossing" or down the "Springwater Corridor" and share it nicely with cyclists and pedestrians, or one of the supposedly "shared streets" in inner SE (and not get the stinkeye or get flipped off by cyclists) I'll be behind you 100% on that too.
I enjoy your naive and quirky style of debate, but I've said all I am going to say to you.
Like I said, come on out from your home in New Jersey, and go down to the Springwater Corridor Crossing on Johnson Creek Blvd, sit there and watch the show...
I see it almost everyday, do you?
My friend, there is nothing like seeing things first hand and knowing, instead of thinking ones self to be knowlegable as to what is currently going on here in Portland from 3000 miles away...
Especially if you haven't been to Portland in years.
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 05-19-2014 at 12:48 AM..
I'll tell you what, next time I can drive my vehicle across "The Tilikum Crossing" or down the "Springwater Corridor" and share it nicely with cyclists and pedestrians, or one of the supposedly "shared streets" in inner SE (and not get the stinkeye or get flipped off by cyclists) I'll be behind you 100% on that too.
Like I said, come on out from your home in New Jersey, and go down to the Springwater Corridor Crossing on Johnson Creek Blvd, sit there and watch the show...
I see it almost everyday, do you?
My friend, there is nothing like seeing things first hand and knowing, instead of thinking ones self to be knowlegable as to what is currently going on here in Portland from 3000 miles away...
Especially if you haven't been to Portland in years.
You are upset that there is a trail and one bridge you can't drive over in bridgetown? Do you also get upset at all those pedestrians walking on the sidewalk that you also can't drive on?
You are aware I lived in Portland for years, have been back a few times since I moved away, and have only been gone a couple years and will be moving back this summer? So your jabs at me living in Jersey are laughable at best because I have biked the Springwater Corridor many times and am looking forward to biking it again when I move back. I am sure I will observe lots of things from my bike as I ride around the city.
How much you want to bet I will see plenty of drivers not stopping to let people cross at the Springwater Corridor Crossing as well, the laws are all encompassing, motorists have to obey the law as much as cyclists do, and if the crossing is as much of a hazard as you claim it to be, Portland PD can sit there handing out tickets to cyclists and motorists not obeying the law.
If one gets behind a biker and they wont share the road, is it illegal for one to throw his/her car in neutral and rev the engine?
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