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My definition? Anything that shoots more than one bullet with one pull on the trigger. I fail to see why any private citizen who feels they need a weapon, needs more than that.
That would be the weapon used by the Reynolds shooter. And that is all most citizens have, although I have owned full auto weapons, very few citizens do. They own the very weapon you are talking about. You are caught up in what it looks like, not what it is.
Although many LDS families are well armed, they have not resorted to full auto as far as I know, and most are belter trained than some of our citizen soldiers are.
I am sure secured means as well as any other citizen would secure. You can't blame the family for what was most likely one socially slighted mental case.
No, I'm not caught up in what it LOOKS like. I haven't the foggiest idea what semi-automatic, automatic, or single shot weapons look like, or should I say any differences in them. I'm caught up in what it does.
Please don't tell me what I'm thinking, thanks. You couldn't imagine.
If the kid could break into however the weapon/s were "secured" ... it wasn't secure.
The Oregon Public has spoken and the answer is no.
I don't recall ever seeing anything on the ballot about funding any type of security for schools.
Everything else about schools...yes....but SECURITY?
Even the Khyron Horman case didn't generate a public vote for increasing security.
Schools installed CCTV systems, but that was about it.
I would definitely throw some money that way, if it was used exclusively for that reason and that reason only...
I'm sure a well written and well thought out ballot measure would pass easily.
Here is your chance to become an Oregon State Hero, Steve!
We don't have to go hog wild and secure every school in the state, middle and high schools should get the most attention.
Think about it, that's the most tumultuous and confusing time in a kids life, both physically and mentally.
Elementary schools are probably pretty low risk for school shootings for example, and every elementary school I have visited was already fanatical about controlling outside visitors.
An unknown teenager or adult stands out like a big red sore thumb in an elementary school.
Colleges could be required to fund security through tuition, and many already have their own security (campus police) departments.
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 06-12-2014 at 10:17 AM..
We don't have to go hog wild and secure every school in the state, middle and high schools should get the most attention. ... ...
But one of the most serious mass shootings anywhere was an elementary school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx
... ...
Colleges could be required to fund security through tuition, and many already have their own security (campus police) departments.
Most are unarmed at the liberal's request.
Here are the numbers from recent research.
An active shooter kills one individual every 20 seconds.
The average police response time (at best) is 10 minutes. Do the math.
The average response time for in school resource officers is under 2 minutes.
The tested response time with 5% of the school staff armed is 50% reduction in casualties.
The tested response time with 10% of the school staff armed results in a 70% reduction in casualties.
This shooter had a semi auto rifle and a semi auto handgun. One pull of the trigger discharged one round. He had 9 magazines (They don't use clips in most weapons except for M1 Garand's and the like). Probably 20 rounds each. That means the school resource officers most likely saved (10 minutes times 20 seconds) 20 to 30 students even if you consider the 2 minute max response time. If the police had waited outside for SWAT it would have meant the potential loss of life numbering around 180 potential victims.
By-the-way. These are numbers released this morning.
Arm our school administrators to save our children.
You can not stop the first shoots, but you can keep it from being a mass shooting. Keep prohibiting guns in the hands of trained school staff and you advertise a gun free shooting gallery.
Give it some serious thought without all the liberal passion. They're your kids. Do you want them protected, or exposed to every disgruntled nutcase on the planet?
You are only peresenting one side, at that is the side that wants guns in schools.
Your facts, from your "recent research", what ever that may be, are misleading, even if they are true.
Facts can be skewed in favor of any argument.
It is my firm belief that WEAPONS HAVE NO PLACE IN A SCHOOL CLASSROOM.....ANY SCHOOL CLASSROOM....EVER.
What you are proposingis a reactive solution.
Wait until the shooting starts, then shoot back.
That's an easy, but very dangerous solution.
My suggestions have beenproactive solutions.
Greatly reduce the possibility of a shooting starting before it even has a chance to happen.
A little more public tax money spent? Sure.
A little more difficult than making amateur SWAT teams out of school admistrators? Sure
If we were proactive in dealing with these kinds of scenarios, and stopped them BEFORE they happened, would the facts you spouted above exist? Think about that!
What kind of crap is our tax money spent on now because some politician desires a legacy?
How much tax money do we have to waste on public "glitz" and cronyism before we figure it out?
Redirect some of that money.
Question our priorities, maybe?
Quote:
Give it some serious thought without all the liberal passion. They're your kids. Do you want them protected, or exposed to every disgruntled nutcase on the planet?
I have given it some thought, and I am far from being a "liberal", which is not always a bad thing to be by the way (you say it like a swear word).
They are my kids.
I do want them protected.
I don't think that you realize that there are many ways to protect them.
Arming teachers and admins is just one way.
A very poor way.
And we don't have to fix the world.
We can fix Oregon first.
We used to have a reputation of being an innovative state.
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 06-12-2014 at 12:55 PM..
Are you saying that we shouldn't do anything at all because school shootings are relatively uncommon?
Do nothing. I think that is a very reasonable response to an obvious one off situation. Remember all the outcry when children died in a school in an area of the south known as "Tornado Alley"? The school had no Tornado Shelter and there was plenty said about that oversight. The school was rebuilt or is being rebuilt, but what I know is that it is not being rebuilt with a Tornado Shelter. After all the name calling and finger pointing and recrimination, when the time came to put dollars down and build schools that would keep children safe in an age of increasingly violent atmospheric activity... ... they didn't do it.
The chances of another school shooting are not zero, but they are lower than the chances of another F5 tornado in Mississippi or Missouri or wherever it was. Do you think the formation of the TSA as a response to 9/11 was warranted? I don't. I think it is a criminal waste of public treasure and my heart goes out to anyone who has to use air transportation on any kind of a regular basis. I worked for 14 years for the Dept. of Correction in NYC. As a civilian contractor, my access to secure facilities was greatly eased by my department shield and ID. Even so it was annoying at times and even intrusive at other times.
When you have a generalized security perimeter and you have made all the students at a school subject to security scrutiny you turn a school into a prison. The teachers will have shields and ID to facilitate hassle free ingress and egress. The students will become inmates. You will of necessity expose these kids, daily to levels of background radiation they would not otherwise receive. You instill the subtle psychological pressure on each child to consider their friends and acquaintances on a "threat level" basis. This could never be a good thing.
Yes, do nothing. Someone is shot every 20 seconds, in a school, Steve? I don't think so. Because of the 2nd Amendment. The Holy Sacred and Inviolable 2nd Amendment, we have not done anything meaningful, in the face of an ever more restive and troubled population. What would be different here?
One of my literary heroes" JacK Reacher, says "there are no coincidences". I would caution young parents who plan to name a son, Jared. A lot has been said in this thread about what we should do... ... what we need to do is take some of the pressure off of America's Middle and Underclass. If being Liberal is not neccessarily a bad thing I wish I could back atcha about the lack of harm in having a Conservative ideology. 57% of America, more or less, swings Right and ... ... the evidence does not point to this being healthy for people. The whack jobs that cause so much misery for folks when they go off the rails and act out random violence on an unsuspecting public are not Liberal!!
Even when they don't shoot people, there is evidence that America's young people are fraying under the strain of living in an America conflicted over race, sexuality, sexual identity, abortion, class warfare, crony capitalism and climate change. There is no other country on the planet where people are as divided ideologically as America. Actually there are several and they are all in active Civil War. In some ways that would be preferable to the ongoing back and forth of talking points. Unfortunately we've been there. We had a Civil War. I am too young to know much about it. It doesn't appear to have solved anything for very long.
There were resource officers at Reynolds and they apparently kept the situation there from becoming more of a tragedy. But they didn't prevent it from happening. I think we can prevent things like this from happening. And I don't think it takes billions of dollars to do it either.
Steve,
Your solution is to arm teachers and adminstrators.
Sounds like a very simple solution to you, but obviously you have not thought through it much.
Let's flesh this out a bit.
What type of administrator or school employee would be the best choice?
Principals? Vice Principals? Counselors? Secretaries? Book-keepers? Custodians? Teachers?
How do we do this?
Just give them Global CCP, a private arsenal, a license to kill, and tell them don't worry and to get back to work?
It's not that simple.
You are now giving the admins and teachers a HUGE additional responsibility.
Protection of what may be hundreds of students.
Not just the "normal" protection they are entrusted with, but type of protection that carries the real possibility of being singularly put in a situation to voluntarily shoot at and kill someone.
And they won't get a "do-over", or a second chance?
Are we going to give them additional compensation for that responsibility?
How much?
How would you word a job description for that position?
What about counseling to be up to, and able handle the task, not to mention dealing with the aftermath?
How about stress counseling, knowing that the "day" may come, and you'd better be ready for it?
How about training?
Marksmanship certification? How much practice and interval of re-qualification?
Every week?
Urban combat training so they know how to handle a fire-fight in close quarters?
With children around?
How much practice and training?
Mental Competency?
How are we going to assure ourselves they will be able to do the job if the time ever comes?
How often for that? Mental competency evaluations every 6 months, every other month? Every week?
What about collateral damage?
The last thing I want to have happen is some person with a gun choking at the last minute, getting killed and supplying the shooter(s) with another weapon.
How do we know they themselves won't snap under the stress, and close their eyes and start spraying bullets, hoping and praying for the best??
What about teachers unions? What are they going to say about that?
How about parents that are vehemently anti-gun pulling their kids out of public schools?
How about the mental trauma the kids would be put through having to see one of their teachers, vice principals, or school counselors shooting someone?
There are better ways to handle this without blustery knee jerk reactions.
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 06-12-2014 at 03:03 PM..
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