Will Portland ever build more freeway lanes? (Eugene, Hillsboro: live in, rail)

[colganc]

I love to ride trains. In the 00s that was my preferred way to get to the Bay Area even if it took a lot longer than flying. It just doesn't make economic sense though to build high speed rail all the way between Portland and San Francisco. For the same money you could run a fleet of planes for years with heavy subsidation to the point that the flight was nearly free. Alaska Air seems to run on around 4.5 billion in costs annually and the proposed SF to LA line around 50 billion.

Travel time between Portland and SF would be in the 5 hour or so mark? Maybe 6? While not as efficienct, a 100 mph average speed on I5 would put a car in the same ballpark time wise. I can imagine 20 years from now a nearly 100% autonomous car with advanced hybrid systems and a lower coefficient of drag could economically make the trip at a 90mph speed. Maybe working at improving I5 slowly with shallower grades, a few tunnels, and a reduction of the slow tight corners would make more sense. This would even reduce the costs of shipping. Throw some money towards rail at the same time to do the same improvements to the rail tracks. Would still cutdown on travel time via rail and help freight trains too. Probably a lot cheaper.

[sorupaa]

Greyhound will probably be driverless too

There would be driverless boats.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

In the case of Portland, the current infrastructure is inadequate and poorly engineered. Something needs to be done in the 405, I-5 circle.

And what do you think needs to be done with the 405 circle?

[skiffrace]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

In the case of Portland, the current infrastructure is inadequate and poorly engineered....

It was adequate and correctly engineered for the needs of several decades.
Only when PDX metro population reached new high levels somewhere in the 90s, the design reached its limits.

As everybody knows, few or no new roads\lanes will be built. There is no physical room, money or political will.

The current congestion will continue to increase until it becomes so bad that people in substantial numbers will start taking alternative modes of transportation seriously.
At that point the system will reach its equilibrium - won't start to improve, but simply stop declining.

In the meantime, posts like this will continue: "I got a job in Hillsboro, and want to live in a walkable neighborhood. Is Pearl a good match for me?"
And so will answers: "You should also consider Sellwood".

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by skiffrace

It was adequate and correctly engineered for the needs of several decades.
Only when PDX metro population reached new high levels somewhere in the 90s, the design reached its limits.
As everybody knows, few or no new roads\lanes will be built. There is no physical room, money or political will.
The current congestion will continue to increase until it becomes so bad that at least some people will start taking alternative modes of transportation seriously.

In the meantime, posts like this will continue: "I got a job in Hillsboro, and want to live in a walkable neighborhood. Is Pearl a good match for me?"
And so will answers: "You should also consider Sellwood".

That is so true, people in the Portland metro need to look at where their job is and try to find housing closer to work. This is also why we are starting to see more walkable communities popping up in Hillsboro. I really don't know why anyone with a job in Washington County would want to live east of the hills.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

That is so true, people in the Portland metro need to look at where their job is and try to find housing closer to work. This is also why we are starting to see more walkable communities popping up in Hillsboro. I really don't know why anyone with a job in Washington County would want to live east of the hills.

Typically at least two people live together. They both don't necessarily have jobs in the same area. Another aspect is what they do outside of work is closer for them if they live on the east side even if their job is on the west. There are lots of reasons, many we don't know or are hard for to understand unless living the same life style. Better to deal with reality than force people into what you want them to do. Accommodating for what people want to do let's people live happier too.

The reason we see more walkable places in Hillsboro is Hillsboro wants to capture more wealthy workers to keep their case for businesses locating there strong. Without "walk ability" it looks less interesting to certain businesses to locate there.

[VTHokieFan]

Originally Posted by skiffrace

It was adequate and correctly engineered for the needs of several decades.
Only when PDX metro population reached new high levels somewhere in the 90s, the design reached its limits.

It was never correctly engineered. The whole thing is a disaster.

Originally Posted by skiffrace

As everybody knows, few or no new roads\lanes will be built. There is no physical room, money or political will.

I agree.

Originally Posted by skiffrace

The current congestion will continue to increase until it becomes so bad that people in substantial numbers will start taking alternative modes of transportation seriously.
At that point the system will reach its equilibrium - won't start to improve, but simply stop declining.

There are not sufficient alternative modes of transportation for that to happen. The MAX is inefficient.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by colganc

Typically at least two people live together. They both don't necessarily have jobs in the same area. Another aspect is what they do outside of work is closer for them if they live on the east side even if their job is on the west. There are lots of reasons, many we don't know or are hard for to understand unless living the same life style. Better to deal with reality than force people into what you want them to do. Accommodating for what people want to do let's people live happier too.

The reason we see more walkable places in Hillsboro is Hillsboro wants to capture more wealthy workers to keep their case for businesses locating there strong. Without "walk ability" it looks less interesting to certain businesses to locate there.

Not couple has one job on the west side while the other has a job on the complete opposite side of town. That isn't really that common. I do think there needs to be more rail expansion on the west side to provide a larger reach of alternative transportation to the people living west of the hills.

Expanding the highways aren't going to fix the problems because the traffic is still going to bottleneck do to limited access points to get through.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

It was never correctly engineered. The whole thing is a disaster.

There are not sufficient alternative modes of transportation for that to happen. The MAX is inefficient.

I disagree with you here, 405 was designed just fine for the region when it was built. It provided access that was needed and the engineering of it makes sense. The amount of traffic that comes in from the westside to go towards the Fremont Bridge or to the Ross Island Bridge needs some attention to adjust to the growth in traffic. But to call the whole thing a disaster from the beginning just makes no sense and isn't really based on anything.

The MAX needs to be expanded on the westside to be more efficient getting people in and out of downtown and a westside highway connection is needed to help bypass downtown for those that are commuting to Vancouver....though I think it is pretty dumb to live west of the hills and commute to Vancouver.

[VTHokieFan]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

I disagree with you here, 405 was designed just fine for the region when it was built. It provided access that was needed and the engineering of it makes sense. The amount of traffic that comes in from the westside to go towards the Fremont Bridge or to the Ross Island Bridge needs some attention to adjust to the growth in traffic. But to call the whole thing a disaster from the beginning just makes no sense and isn't really based on anything.

The MAX needs to be expanded on the westside to be more efficient getting people in and out of downtown and a westside highway connection is needed to help bypass downtown for those that are commuting to Vancouver....though I think it is pretty dumb to live west of the hills and commute to Vancouver.

The interchanges are not designed well because its the interchanges themselves that are causing the bottlenecks. It's not the fact that it's 2 lanes of I-5 through Portland, it's the way the exits and onramps are designed. I would propose either a tunnel under the entire thing or turn 405 into I-5 and make the portion between the Marquam Bridge start and I-84, just all I 84. Demolish the piece of I-5 that goes past Moda