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Old 09-22-2014, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx View Post
What has many people upset about this fee, is that street maintenance and repair should have been a basic function of Portland's city government through the years, but it was largely ignored when the city had the money to do them.

I guess there were a lot more "fun" things to blow millions of dollars of taxpayer money on when times were good.

Now that the economy sucks and everybody is broke, the city wants it's residents to pay for the very things that it should have been doing all along as a function of government.

IMHO, Steve Novick isn't helping the cause much either.
He is coming across as an entitled, "I know better than you" disconnected politician, who doesn't care how much Portland taxpayer money he spends, or how he gets it...

The worst part about it is, that by calling it a "FEE", Portland residents won't get to vote on any part of it.

Taxation without representation anyone?
From what it sounded like to me is the city had to make tough choices with budget cuts and needed decided to put repaving of roads on hold for five years. The economy is much better than it was a few years ago and the city understands what the taxpayers want, which are smooth roads. Heck, I love driving and biking on a smooth road. But to make that happen before the five year freeze is up, there would need to be a fee to cover the cost of paving new roads.

Steve Novick has always been a risk taker, I have always known that about him when he first ran for Senate and I voted for him. I always figured he would take chances that people may or may not like, but at least he was willing to take chances.

You are represented, the city council is something the people of Portland vote for. If you don't like how your city council represents you, then vote against them in the next election.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,121 posts, read 3,086,577 times
Reputation: 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That road repair you have seen is probably due to the tire killing potholes they had throughout the city that have been around all winter and spring.
Syracuse does have more than its fair share of potholes, but the natives say Syracuse has two seasons. Winter and road construction season.

Portland businesses are going to get a double whammy. They're going to have to pony up for some of the road repair, and the road repair will adversely affect their business.

Expect a lot of news stories about your trendy businesses drying up because their customers didn't want to deal with road and sidewalk repair.

Last edited by SyraBrian; 09-23-2014 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Just outside of Portland
4,828 posts, read 7,430,496 times
Reputation: 5116
Quote:
From what it sounded like to me is the city had to make tough choices with
budget cuts and needed decided to put repaving of roads on hold for five years.
The economy is much better than it was a few years ago and the city understands
what the taxpayers want, which are smooth roads. Heck, I love driving and
biking on a smooth road. But to make that happen before the five year freeze is
up, there would need to be a fee to cover the cost of paving new roads.
All I can say is that you can believe whatever you want, but sometimes what you think is the truth is not exactly how things went down.

It may be true that there were budget cuts, but you also have to ask yourself why those budget cuts were needed in the first place. The truth is that the money they had was wasted on fluff and fringe projects, politician's legacies, etc.

I have to laugh when someone really believes that Portland's government is all transparent, straightforward, and honest, and is doing what's best for it's citizens.

Do yourself a favor and read up a little Portland history.
It isn't all pretty roses and sweet gentle rain.
This town's politicians have been fleecing it's residents since it's inception.


Anyways,
Something interesting is happening in my old neighborhood of Woodstock, related to street improvements.
This is a neighborhood renown for substandard streets, gravel roads, big potholes that turn into ponds with ducks during the winter rains, no sidewalks, etc.
Every time Portland's bad roads are mentioned, this neighborhood has come up.

The city has come in and is resealing the residential streets with some kind of slurry.
The interesting thing is, all the roads that are getting the treatment are roads that don't need it.
The roads with minimal cracks, no potholes, the roads that are in great shape and don't need anything at all are the ones getting "improved".

If the road has no sidewalks, no resealing.
Gravel roads aren't being touched.
Anything that prevents them from coming in and quickly resealing and moving on gets a pass.
WHY?
All the areas that really need some help are being ignored, and the residents of this neighborhood aren't blind.
Everyone's talking about how foolish this is.

But, I guess if you drive down Woodstock Blvd and look down the side streets, everything *looks* like the city has listened to residents and finally is doing something about that neighborhoods road situation.

Good PR for the mayor, people think things are getting done, but the reality is that nothing is really getting accomplished but wasting money on un-needed projects instead of tackling the hard ones.
They are taking the easy way out.

Typical Portland.
Put the icing on the cake before it's done baking, and call it good.
Looks good on the outside, but when you cut a piece out and look inside.......
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyraBrian View Post
Syracuse does have more than its fair share of potholes, but the natives say Syracuse has two seasons. Winter and road construction season.

Portland businesses are going to get a double whammy. They're going to have to pony up for some of the road repair, and the road repair will adversely affect their business.

Expect a lot of news stories about your trendy businesses drying up because their customers didn't want to deal with road and sidewalk repair.
That makes no sense, repaving streets now compared to later would cause the same disruptions. I doubt businesses on NW 23rd are going to be drying out when they finally repave that road.

In places like Syracuse and other northwest cities, they have to repair the roads each year, which I doubt every street gets repaved every year due to their tire killing potholes they acquired and drivers had to deal with all winter and spring. In Portland you can drive around the city and not worry about blowing a tire on any given street, therefore the need to repave all the roads in Portland every year is less of a priority.

I am not arguing against street repaving because I personally love to bike and drive on freshly paved streets, all I am saying is the condition of Portland streets aren't as bad as they are in other places that have to repave their streets every year or there would be no streets for people to drive on the following year.

Places like Syracuse have to repave their streets every year for this reason.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,121 posts, read 3,086,577 times
Reputation: 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That makes no sense, repaving streets now compared to later would cause the same disruptions. I doubt businesses on NW 23rd are going to be drying out when they finally repave that road.

In places like Syracuse and other northwest cities, they have to repair the roads each year, which I doubt every street gets repaved every year due to their tire killing potholes they acquired and drivers had to deal with all winter and spring. In Portland you can drive around the city and not worry about blowing a tire on any given street, therefore the need to repave all the roads in Portland every year is less of a priority.

I am not arguing against street repaving because I personally love to bike and drive on freshly paved streets, all I am saying is the condition of Portland streets aren't as bad as they are in other places that have to repave their streets every year or there would be no streets for people to drive on the following year.

Places like Syracuse have to repave their streets every year for this reason.
They're not just talking about repaving. They want to gussy up the sidewalks and a lot of other stuff.

And from experience, when cities do more than repave, sections get blocked off, the cones go up and some folks find a new place to eat and shop.

And then people watch the news stories from the desperate small business owners who need to inform consumers that their businesses are still accessible. I've seen it here.

If you actually listen to the city administration, they want to rush into this project because they feel that they have to fend off Portland's roads from deteriorating into "third world conditions".

They should have been continuously tackling the worst conditions every year and repaving sections of the rest more frequently.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,988,147 times
Reputation: 3422
Simple solution, just have a City of Portland sales tax, then everyone who comes to Portland and enjoys the fine roads there can pay their share also.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:26 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 17,477,729 times
Reputation: 9193
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyraBrian View Post
Syracuse does have more than its fair share of potholes, but the natives say Syracuse has two seasons. Winter and road construction season.

Portland businesses are going to get a double whammy. They're going to have to pony up for some of the road repair, and the road repair will adversely affect their business.

Expect a lot of news stories about your trendy businesses drying up because their customers didn't want to deal with road and sidewalk repair.
The busier streets (some with "trendy businesses") already seem to have more regular road repair and maintenance--along with other improvements. I remember a few years or so back when they closed NW 23rd for repair for a few weeks--which is a long time, but no businesses went out of business specifically for that(though the economy was bad at that point). Most simple re-paving doesn't take that long though--they paved parts of SE Stark and E Burnside this summer on my route home and I barely even noticed.

The street tax(it's more than a fee) is supposedly for the entire massive backlog of projects. Though this doesn't cover the possible paving of the 56 miles of unpaved streets throughout Portland. Though in some ways while some of the unpaved streets look like rural Alabama, they probably keep property values in those neighborhoods slightly more affordable and push back a little gentrification(though not even that much, since there's unpaved streets in fairly close in neighborhoods that are pretty popular spots).
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:32 PM
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n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyraBrian View Post
They should have been continuously tackling the worst conditions every year and repaving sections of the rest more frequently.
This. Had they maintained it to begin with instead of deciding to axe basic maintenance and divert the money to pet projects instead, the problem would be under control and much cheaper to deal with.

Unfortunately the situation isn't going to change until people like Novick have their reign in city hall put to an end. We're about to get a street fee that people like Novick promise us will mostly not be used for street repairs and of which precisely $0 will go to fixing up unpaved roads - despite people in the mayor's office implying that it will.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,121 posts, read 3,086,577 times
Reputation: 2311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
The streets with "trendy businesses" already seem to have more regular road repair and maintenance--along with other improvements. I remember a few years or so back when they closed NW 23rd for repair for a few weeks--which is a long time, but no businesses went out of business specifically for that(though the economy was bad at that point). Most simple re-paving doesn't take that long though--they paved parts of SE Stark and E Burnside this summer on my route home and I barely even noticed.

The street tax(it's more than a fee) is supposedly for the entire massive backlog of projects. Though this doesn't cover the possible paving of the 56 miles of unpaved streets throughout Portland. Though in some ways while some of the unpaved streets look like rural Alabama, they probably keep property values in those neighborhoods slightly more affordable and push back a little gentrification(though not even that much, since there's unpaved streets in fairly close in neighborhoods that are pretty popular spots).
Good points. Cities do devote more time to the nicer neighborhoods. And Syracuse is worse off than Portland economically, so every lost dime hurts more.

And I just read that they've turned it into more of a street paving venture and less of a sidewalks and bike path deal.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,097,852 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyraBrian View Post
They're not just talking about repaving. They want to gussy up the sidewalks and a lot of other stuff.

And from experience, when cities do more than repave, sections get blocked off, the cones go up and some folks find a new place to eat and shop.

And then people watch the news stories from the desperate small business owners who need to inform consumers that their businesses are still accessible. I've seen it here.

If you actually listen to the city administration, they want to rush into this project because they feel that they have to fend off Portland's roads from deteriorating into "third world conditions".

They should have been continuously tackling the worst conditions every year and repaving sections of the rest more frequently.
And? Do they not repave sidewalks in Syracuse? Now I am confused, first it sounds like you are saying Portland should be repaving its streets and repairing its sidewalk, and now you aren't?

Sidewalk repair does happen, but not every sidewalk needs to be repaired. Often times it is just a small section that needs to be redone. Hardly anything I would consider "third world conditions."

I am starting to think we aren't talking about the same thing. The worst conditions in Portland would be the least worst conditions in a place like Syracuse. Potholes here don't blow tires because they are so deep. And the sidewalks in Portland are fine, with the occasional one that might need to be redone.
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