Get ready for a street fee (Portland: gated, maintenance, live)

[SyraBrian]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

And? Do they not repave sidewalks in Syracuse? Now I am confused, first it sounds like you are saying Portland should be repaving its streets and repairing its sidewalk, and now you aren't?

Sidewalk repair does happen, but not every sidewalk needs to be repaired. Often times it is just a small section that needs to be redone. Hardly anything I would consider "third world conditions."

I am starting to think we aren't talking about the same thing. The worst conditions in Portland would be the least worst conditions in a place like Syracuse. Potholes here don't blow tires because they are so deep. And the sidewalks in Portland are fine, with the occasional one that might need to be redone.

I'm saying that Portland should have maintained its roads with more consistency. They failed to do that.

I'm also saying that they should repave the worst roads and sidewalks but do the rest in a manner that's not breakneck so as to not affect businesses too much and cause an overly large street fee.

When I was there, city administrators were taking up lots of time talking about the car damage if they didn't repair the roads. Are you refuting them?

Lastly, I just read this day that Portland is supposedly toning down the non-road repair part of this plan. Sidewalks are nice but I'm afraid that they'll spend as much on sidewalks as roads.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

Wait, there's a lot more to the Portland street repair story:

I don't know if you guys realize this, but sidewalk repair in Portland is the responsibility of the property owner, not the City.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/trans...article/301362

If the City discovers a hazardous sidewalk, it will notify the homeowner and expect it to have it repaired at the homeowners cost within a timely manner.
If that does not happen, the City sends it's own contractor out and then bills the homeowner.

Sidewalk repair is one thing, but if the street/road currently has no sidewalks, the City of Portland also requires that the property owners pay for them.

If an existing house that has no sidewalk is torn down and another is built in its place, the City requires that a sidewalk be installed (at
your cost) in front of that property even if the other houses on the street have no sidewalks.
Double whammy if it's a corner lot.

Same thing for improving the crappy gravel roads to asphalt.

One of my old houses had a side road that was approximately 3 blocks of potholed gravel nightmare that the CoP had never ever touched.

A new neighbor decided to start a LID, and when the final cost was revealed it was slightly over 1.5 million dollars.

LID: Learn about Local Improvement Districts | Local Improvement District Projects | The City of Portland, Oregon

The cost was to be shared by about 30 homeowners at an average 50k a piece depending on frontage, curbs and sidewalks were required, and any driveway cutouts were extra.
The homeowners were also responsible for repair and upkeep of the road surface after it was paved.

You could either finance through the city (including interest at 6%), and pay over $300 a month, or have a lien put on your property.

Needless to say, the road is still potholed muddy gravel, and if anyone tries to improve it by filling the potholes with dirt, rocks, broken up concrete/bricks or something, the city will be happy to fine you for illegal dumping if it can catch you...

And you wonder why the "Street Fee" has so much opposition.
The City of Portland works very hard at not granting any favors to the normal, ordinary residents.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by SyraBrian

I'm saying that Portland should have maintained its roads with more consistency. They failed to do that.

I'm also saying that they should repave the worst roads and sidewalks but do the rest in a manner that's not breakneck so as to not affect businesses too much and cause an overly large street fee.

When I was there, city administrators were taking up lots of time talking about the car damage if they didn't repair the roads. Are you refuting them?

Lastly, I just read this day that Portland is supposedly toning down the non-road repair part of this plan. Sidewalks are nice but I'm afraid that they'll spend as much on sidewalks as roads.

I agree, Portland should be repaving their roads with more consistency, but the condition of them are not that bad compared to roads I have been on in the Northeast after this last winter where it was down right dangerous to drive on. Portland's streets are no where near that level of poor condition.

Also, Mike makes a good point, sidewalks are the responsibility of the property owners to maintain, not the city. It would be nice to see a break down of the street fee and what it would apply to because it sounds like we are getting mixed messages.

[Deezus]

Yeah, it is the responsibility of adjacent property owners to pay for new sidewalks or pave unpaved roads under current city policy... Though that doesn't stop certain politicians when running for election for raising the issue that "they'll do something about all those unpaved roads" when they're looking for votes on the Eastside. Then they get elected and the bait-and-switch then becomes about streetscape improvements in urban renewal districts.

This article was from way back in 2011:

Dirt Roads, Dead Ends

Portland may pride itself on livability and transportation, but it has a shameful secret: 59 miles of unpaved dirt and gravel roads. That’s more than three times as much as in Nashville, Boise, Seattle, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Denver, Minneapolis, Boston, Austin and San Francisco—combined.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

The picture of "Lake Carlton" in that article was taken just a few blocks from my old house.
The homeowners there finally had enough of trying to plead with the city to fix it.
They got some neighborhood help and dug it out, compacted and re-graveled it at mostly their expense.
That puddle doesn't exist anymore.

Woodstock's informal Lake Carlton is finally gone

Another thing that people don't realize is that big potholes like that attract just about every 16 year old with a four-wheeler for miles around.

We had a big problem with kids thinking our dirt road was an urban mud bog, racing up and down it at all times of the day and night throwing muddy water everywhere and making the potholes deeper and wider.

The other problem was well meaning do-gooders that were landscaping their yards and didn't want the expense of hauling away their dirt.
They would fill the potholes with loose dirt during the dry season, thinking that it helped, then as soon as it rained, it would be muddier than ever.

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

I agree, Portland should be repaving their roads with more consistency, but the condition of them are not that bad compared to roads I have been on in the Northeast after this last winter where it was down right dangerous to drive on. Portland's streets are no where near that level of poor condition.

Also, Mike makes a good point, sidewalks are the responsibility of the property owners to maintain, not the city. It would be nice to see a break down of the street fee and what it would apply to because it sounds like we are getting mixed messages.

I'm really not sure why you keep harping on the northeast, except to make an excuse for the city doing a crappy job of maintaining the streets. Why not compare Portland to cities with similar climates? Why are they able to do it better? Why do they not have 60 miles of unpaved roads? Why the focus on cities that everyone knows get pummeled by severe weather every single year, something that practically never happens here?

This whole thing would be much less offensive if the city spent the money it has on actually taking care of the roads, and then asked the public to approve extra funding when it wanted to do some pet project. Instead, the city does the pet projects first and then tells us that basic maintenance will have to be put on hold for years and can't be done without tens of millions of dollars in extra fees.

It reminds me a bit of Stockton - they didn't bother to fund the basics like pensions and instead blew all the money on marinas, minor league stadiums, a new city hall, etc. Now they're bankrupt and had to slash fire and police services. We're not in that mess, but the people running city hall seem to have a similar mindset - pet projects first, basics second (or not at all).

[skiffrace]

The People usually end up with the government they deserve. It holds true at both the city, and the national level, in both democratic and non-democratic systems of governance.

Portland elite represents the green-washed masses of recent arrivals, fixated on shiny trinkets ("Over there! A street-car!", "Walkable neighborhood! How lovely!") instead of boring fundamentals.

The Portland City Hall would not be able to carry out their pet project(and neglect the basics) without the tacit approval of their constituency. The dissenting minority voices brings to mind the saying "the dogs bark, the caravan moves on"

[pdxMIKEpdx]

But, but....Steve Novick has basically said that all this "pet project" talk is a bullcrap Portland urban legend instigated by lying, conniving political candidates.

I saw it in the Oregonian, on TV, and heard it on the radio a month or so back when the Street Fee was making big news, and the Portland politicians were doing their best to defend it...

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...he_street.html

Yeah right........It's like he thinks that Portland residents can't remember anything that happened longer back than a year or two ago......

[VTHokieFan]

Originally Posted by skiffrace

The People usually end up with the government they deserve. It holds true at both the city, and the national level, in both democratic and non-democratic systems of governance.

Portland elite represents the green-washed masses of recent arrivals, fixated on shiny trinkets ("Over there! A street-car!", "Walkable neighborhood! How lovely!") instead of boring fundamentals.

The Portland City Hall would not be able to carry out their pet project(and neglect the basics) without the tacit approval of their constituency. The dissenting minority voices brings to mind the saying "the dogs bark, the caravan moves on"

I'm a recent arrival, but I'm not focused on shiny trinkets. I was appalled that American cities actually still had gravel roads in city limits.

[VTHokieFan]

Per today's paper

Public Employees Retirement System: Portland's proposed street income tax wouldn't apply to PERS recipients | OregonLive.com