How does Portland, OR compare to Toronto, Canada? (fit in, salons)

[take57]

For what its worth:

I don't know that I would characterize Toronto as "super safe" anymore than I would call Portland 'safe' or Chicago 'dangerous'. GTA is a BIG place. Toronto has Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughn, Richmond Hill, Markham in the same way Portland has Beaverton, Gresham, Tualatin, Vancouver WA and the like. As anywhere, there are safer areas and less safe places. I think you could make a generalization that you're less likely to be a victim of gun violence in TO than most anywhere in the US. Anytime you get 6 million people in a given geographic area, somebody's going to act up.

The unhappiness factor is hard to gauge. Is the cloud cover a factor? Probably. Does having a MFA and pulling shots at Starbuck factor in? Perhaps. Is there a sense of entitlement Americans have that isn't generally part of the Canadian national experience? Yeah, maybe that too. I'd almost defer the same answer with regards to friendliness. People are going to be people. That said, I'm fond of Canadians, they just don't seem wound up as tight.

Need for a car, just like Portland largely depends on where you live, where you need to go and when you need to be there. What is true is the transportation infrastructure is equal, if not better than what you'd find in Chicago. Portland is not Chicago.

For it's size Portland has a robust art scene but don't mix it up with SoHo. If you're drawing inspiration, you're not going to find the MoMA, Norton Simon, AIC, Getty or other world-class museums (with major exhibitions) in Portland. We are lucky that the Oregon Art Museum has leveraged the 'use tax' to bring in some great work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/bu...-portland.html

As to you last question, regrettably I'm not as conversant in the homeless child issue as perhaps I should be other than to say, homelessness is a significant issue in Portland.

YMMV

[tomato&onion]

Leisesturm, thank you so much for your feedback. About the friendliness...it seemed like both cities are equally friendly but Toronto seems friendlier and more tolerant. I'm a Turkish girl in my 20s and living here in Michigan I feel like an outsider because everybody is always asking me where I'm from and that I'm "exotic." I'm tired of hearing that. I guess I'll just have to go back to both of them then decide. I can see myself living in both but Toronto just feels like a better fit.

[Winnyard Bletch]

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

Leisesturm, thank you so much for your feedback. About the friendliness...it seemed like both cities are equally friendly but Toronto seems friendlier and more tolerant. I'm a Turkish girl in my 20s and living here in Michigan I feel like an outsider because everybody is always asking me where I'm from and that I'm "exotic." I'm tired of hearing that. I guess I'll just have to go back to both of them then decide. I can see myself living in both but Toronto just feels like a better fit.

Yeah go for Toronto. Portland is very white in composition and character. Non-Whites were banned throughout much of the 19th century.

[lanhvtnymd]

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

Just saying... there is a West Coast Canadian city that someone on the fence between the U.S. and CA and using Portland as the baseline for the U.S. side of the conundrum might consider: Vancourver, BC. I mean... NYC vs. Toronto is a more rational comparison and were that the question, Toronto would definitely be my vote. As to PDX vs VBC I'd have to swing the other way and stay in PDX (the U.S.). I really have to ask again... what is so alluring about ethnically diverse cities for white people? Or ethnic people for that matter. When has ethnic diversity or the lack of it ever improved a city? The only time a lack of ethnic diversity ever becomes a bad thing is when the dominant ethnicity is black, and the city withdraws essential services and leaves it for dead. There is nowhere on North America where such a phenomenon exists over an entire metropolitan region. Even Detroit and Atlanta aren't entirely redlined, only portions of those metro's are. Even in Detroit can be found areas of relative affluence, safety and economic growth.

H

I think ethnic diversity improves a city, and cities or towns with it are generally more tolerant. Have you ever been to homogeneous cities or towns? Have you ever been in the minority in a homogeneous city or town?

Lack of diversity is boring and a little creepy.

[Sherwoody]

Originally Posted by lanhvtnymd

I think ethnic diversity improves a city, and cities or towns with it are generally more tolerant. Have you ever been to homogeneous cities or towns? Have you ever been in the minority in a homogeneous city or town?

Lack of diversity is boring and a little creepy.

Leisesturm is a black man, he just forgets to mention that or maybe he thinks everyone knows him.

[Leisesturm]

I didn't forget to mention it. It simply isn't relevant in this thread.

[lanhvtnymd]

Originally Posted by Sherwoody

Leisesturm is a black man, he just forgets to mention that or maybe he thinks everyone knows him.

Although I agree that comparing Portland to Toronto is silly, black or not, devaluing diversity is still ridiculous and provincial. It makes me tell myself the story that perhaps he hasn't been to homogeneous areas or is willfully ignorant. I'm from the MS delta and I am black and I can tell you: diversity is valuable and sorely needed in urban, suburban, and rural US.

[ViolentDisasters]

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

Thank you guys so much for responding to my question. I'm living in Michigan currently and absolutely hate it. I can't stand the weather but I feel like in Toronto it wouldn't be as much of an issue because it's such a vibrant city. I'm so tired of this car dependency in the US. It's an unhealthy way of life. I'm also tired of the politics and healthcare situation. I believe in universal healthcare because health should not be based on wealth. I have a few questions:

1) Is Portland safe? I know Toronto is super safe but is Portland just as safe?

2) I heard Portland is considered the #1 most unhappy city in America. How could that be? When I was there it seemed like it was the happiest and healthiest.

3) Can you get by without a car in Portland? How good is the public transit? It seems like it's not as good as it is in Toronto.

4) For an artist, which city is more suitable? Does Portland have a thriving art community?

5) Are people friendlier in Portland or Toronto?

6) I heard Portland has a huge homeless children population. Is that true?

Thank you guys so much.

Have you considered Chicago? Its a lot closer to Michigan and is the size of Toronto. Its cheaper than other American cities of comparable size/amenities, and has a reliable public transit system. While healthcare is not as socialized as Canada, Chicago/Cook County have their own healthcare system called County Care that offers more coverage than standard Obamacare in most states. Theres a large art scene, and the city of Chicago recently inplemented a $14.00 minimum wage increase over the next few years. Its cold in the winter, but fairly similar temperature-wise to Toronto.

Alternately, as mentioned, have you considered Vancouver? Its still in Canada, but offers a milder climate than Toronto, has a flourishing arts scene, and reliable transit system.

Lastly, how do you plan to emigrate to Canada? Unless you have a school/work visa or marry someone who lives there, its harder than you might think. Also, if healthcare is one of your reasons for leaving, Im pretty sure you wont qualify for the healthcare system there if youre visiting on a temporary visa, although I could be mistaken.

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by lanhvtnymd

Although I agree that comparing Portland to Toronto is silly, black or not, devaluing diversity is still ridiculous and provincial. It makes me tell myself the story that perhaps he hasn't been to homogeneous areas or is willfully ignorant. I'm from the MS delta and I am black and I can tell you: diversity is valuable and sorely needed in urban, suburban, and rural US.

That's your opinion. Doesn't make it fact. What are you saying anyway? That the MS delta is diverse? In a white/black way maybe. How many Eastern Europeans? How many Asians? When me and mine went to the City Hall in Portland to obtain a marriage license last year, there was another interracial couple in the room with us. Neither of us had any trouble with officials and we walked out of there with our licenses. Last year in MS an interracial couple were denied a marriage license because the official was concerned about the fraught future their potential children might face having one parent that was black.
Diversity is of no value unless people appreciate it. And mostly they don't. You can't get much more diverse than NYC but try to find a truly mixed area to live in. You are going to have to choose from black areas and white ones and hispanic ones and eastern european ones and everyone who is in some kind of mixed scenario has seven different kinds of hell finding an area that will accept them both. Either one will be welcome and not the other or vice versa. Portland is wonderfully diverse but no one sees it. Interestingly it is also commonly believed that the women of Portland are all shapeless, hirsute, and go about clad in 70's rags and the clop clop of their Birkenstocks almost drowns out the whir of the MAX cars gliding along the Blue Line corridor.

H

[emathias]

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

I'm thinking about moving to Portland or Toronto. I love them both but I'm not sure which one to choose. I do think that Canada is a much better country than the US, which is why I gravitate towards Toronto. Portland is a cool city but maybe it's not as ethnically diverse as Toronto. Any ideas?

Portland is nowhere near as ethnically diverse as Toronto. It is almost shockingly white if you're used to larger, more diverse cities.

Originally Posted by take57

Two different critters entirely. TO is more akin to Vancouver or Chicago than Portland. Really a world class city. Food scene, music, cultural activities, diverse population, sports, transportation and housing infrastructure, just about anything you could name are quite a few notches beyond anything you'll encounter in Portland.
...

Toronto winters are less harsh than people assume. They're not as mild as Portland, but they are more mild than Chicago or even much of Michigan. I am curious why you'd compare Toronto to Portland instead of Vancouver, which is the more obvious choice for comparison. Toronto is also significantly larger than Portland, and significantly more global and international.

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

...
1) Is Portland safe? I know Toronto is super safe but is Portland just as safe?

Portland is relatively safe, yes. Probably not as safe as Toronto, and not as safe as some would have you believe, but relatively safe.

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

2) I heard Portland is considered the #1 most unhappy city in America. How could that be? When I was there it seemed like it was the happiest and healthiest.

Many people don't like the dreary, gray winters. While it's better now, unemployment in Portland was quite bad for a long time and if you don't have job security no place is fun.

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

3) Can you get by without a car in Portland? How good is the public transit? It seems like it's not as good as it is in Toronto.

It is not as good as Toronto or Chicago, and you will feel trapped into a relatively small part of Portland if you are transit-dependent. Portland's reputation for good transit is only relative to other similarly-sized American cities, which isn't exactly stiff competition. Transit in Portland is okay, but pales in comparison to Toronto or Chicago.

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

4) For an artist, which city is more suitable? Does Portland have a thriving art community?

If you want to be a active amateur artist, either city would be fine. Portland does have active arts scene, but it is a small city. If you want to make a living at being an artist, the bigger the better and the more old money the better - Toronto would be a far better choice than Portland.

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

5) Are people friendlier in Portland or Toronto?

Probably comparable, although I think Portland's reputation for friendliness belies a certain tendency toward passive-aggressive behavior.

Originally Posted by tomato&onion

6) I heard Portland has a huge homeless children population. Is that true?
...

Yes, and it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Originally Posted by ViolentDisasters

Have you considered Chicago? Its a lot closer to Michigan and is the size of Toronto. Its cheaper than other American cities of comparable size/amenities, and has a reliable public transit system. While healthcare is not as socialized as Canada, Chicago/Cook County have their own healthcare system called County Care that offers more coverage than standard Obamacare in most states. Theres a large art scene, and the city of Chicago recently inplemented a $14.00 minimum wage increase over the next few years. Its cold in the winter, but fairly similar temperature-wise to Toronto.

Alternately, as mentioned, have you considered Vancouver? Its still in Canada, but offers a milder climate than Toronto, has a flourishing arts scene, and reliable transit system.

Lastly, how do you plan to emigrate to Canada? Unless you have a school/work visa or marry someone who lives there, its harder than you might think. Also, if healthcare is one of your reasons for leaving, Im pretty sure you wont qualify for the healthcare system there if youre visiting on a temporary visa, although I could be mistaken.

Yep, emigrating to Canada isn't as easy as people think.

Chicago would be a reasonable alternative to consider. Closer to your current home, considerably bigger than Toronto as a metro area, no immigration issues, diversity in Chicago is different from Toronto, but it is still quite diverse and far more diverse than Portland. For better or worse, crime in Chicago is mostly contained in a few areas and the rest of it is quite safe. It surprises a lot of people that Chicago metro area is one of the safest big cities in the U.S. - check out the Brookings report on metro area crime from 2008 for a detailed analysis of how that breaks down. Weather would be no worse than you're already used to.

I grew up in and around Portland, but live in Chicago now and love living here, and on visits to Portland now it feels so small and quaint. If you want a big city with international presence, Chicago or Toronto are far better choices than Portland. Portland has good points, but scale, diversity and global presence are not part of Portland's offerings.