Too expensive to live here (Portland: employment, buy, tax)

[Mini-apple-less]

Originally Posted by Discovery1

You have to start talking about JOBS, WAGES or else it WILL NOT go anywhere at the end.

Yeah I mean, if you work 40 hours a week and make $10 an hour you're looking at a measly $1400 a month after taxes. One bedrooms in Portland average over a thousand dollars a month, so it's pretty much impossible to live in Portland without roommates unless you're lucky enough to have one of the few jobs in the city that doesn't pay peanuts. You'll be paying over half your income even on a studio, so not having a car isn't so much a quirky Portland lifestyle choice but something that's forced on you because you can't afford to pay for car insurance and gas and still have enough left over to eat and pay your utilities, let alone go to the doctor. And not being able to afford a car will severely limit your work opportunities and will make commuting to college hell unless you live near campus.

And just forget about having kids, it's no wonder Portland has more dogs than children.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Discovery1

Portland should be much better city by now if many people in Portland think like you do. I think the mess started from California went up north. Back in the 70's. 80's, 90's Portland was a wonderful city in many things including COL.

I think it's all started with the boom of high tech early 90's in the silicon valley which cause housing in the bay area shot up. Southern California dung this time like orange county was around 20% cheaper than the bay area. Portland was much, much cheap back then compare with the 2 above in California.
Then there were people started to move up north, Some with high tech jobs transfer, some with cheaper housing in mind. And that just California.

Fast forward to the early 2000's when you have another booming and this time was the internet where you found writers writing/rating stuffs such Portland , OR, Austin, TX...etc are some of the best places for young people. Then later, best places for environment, best places for bike, best places for foodie, and on and on. Now there you have people. This time not only from California but from all over the US started to move to those cities mentioned on the internet.
So what has changed and what has not changed ? I think we all know what has changed since then but let look at what has not changed or should i say not much changed for the last few decades in Portland.

I will list a few here :
Roads/freeways in and around Portland not much change since then.
The number of jobs available as well as diversification of Portland's economy. Financial sector is very weak in Portland. Are we anti business or our tax policy system has a problem or are we stoned to the point we don't want any change ? Would we someday have a Facebook, a Google, a Microsoft alike or we just have Nike, home made beer and that's enough of a sleeping pill. There's a handful of small start up software companies in Pearl district but venture capitals are so weak in Portland. Chances are if/when they become success the will move their headquarters somewhere else.

Will stop right here for now but the picture of Portland will not be pretty when you fast forward next 10, 20 years down the road. Some folks in here shouldn't look down on southern cities, mid west cities because they might well having a better, comfortable life than us.

I wouldn't want to see Portland become attractive to venture capitalists, that is basically a vulture industry that doesn't actually produce anything. I like seeing our industry grow by start up businesses that are willing to make things.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less

Yeah I mean, if you work 40 hours a week and make $10 an hour you're looking at a measly $1400 a month after taxes. One bedrooms in Portland average over a thousand dollars a month, so it's pretty much impossible to live in Portland without roommates unless you're lucky enough to have one of the few jobs in the city that doesn't pay peanuts. You'll be paying over half your income even on a studio, so not having a car isn't so much a quirky Portland lifestyle choice but something that's forced on you because you can't afford to pay for car insurance and gas and still have enough left over to eat and pay your utilities, let alone go to the doctor. And not being able to afford a car will severely limit your work opportunities and will make commuting to college hell unless you live near campus.

And just forget about having kids, it's no wonder Portland has more dogs than children.

Roommates or be in a relationship with two incomes. There are alternatives within Portland, as well as outside of Portland. Plus, if you have the right connections, you can still find decent priced living with roommates. Though if one is hoping to live by themselves in Portland with a take home of $17K a year, then you missed the mark by about 10+ years. When I first lived in Portland, I had a studio on the edge of downtown for $550-600 a month. Those were the days, it was a fun time then being a bachelor here.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

You have to start talking about JOBS, WAGES or else it WILL NOT go anywhere at the end.

Ok, well look at the cost of buying a home in Portland right now and tell me where are all the well paying jobs and wages to support it?

Things are still crappy, economy wise.
Like I said, wait until that turns around (and creates jobs and wages) and loan interest rates (higher loan costs) start going up.

People will jump on available real estate before it really gets to be unaffordable, demand will go up, then prices will go up.....

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx

Ok, well look at the cost of buying a home in Portland right now and tell me where are all the well paying jobs and wages to support it?

Things are still crappy, economy wise.
Like I said, wait until that turns around (and creates jobs and wages) and loan interest rates (higher loan costs) start going up.

People will jump on available real estate before it really gets to be unaffordable, demand will go up, then prices will go up.....

The issue right now is the fact that those that currently own in Portland aren't looking to sell, so it is affecting demand in a bit of a weird way.

Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less

I agree with you. I left because I was sick of paying out the nose for essentially a Third World lifestyle. My last place in Portland had no window screens, a crappy laundromat that cost a fortune, sketchy and dangerous neighbors, and didn't even allow tenants to plant a window AC unit. Feels like living in the 1970s or something. Groceries are also very expensive in Portland if you aren't lucky enough to live close to a Winco.

While I admit there are cool things about Portland like Powell's Books, it's just not worth paying double what you'd pay in Eugene or many other big cities in the Midwest and South for rent. The fact the economy in Portland is dismal and the people are dull and unfriendly doesn't help either. I seriously think Portland might be the most overrated place on the planet.

The main problem with Portland is that people there are totally blind to its problems and feel like the inconveniences and nasty things about their city are still better than any other city. They'll say things like "Portland is expensive but cheap compared to everywhere else" or "Our economy might be dismal, but it's still worse everywhere else" or my favorite "Portland is so safe, there's pretty much no crime at all here", things that aren't even true and if you disagree they will get insulted. Portland needs more self-criticism and less self-congratulation.

No, people are not blind to the problems.

The economy is not generally dismal. In fact if you have a solid science/engineering background it's quite good, with lots of jobs that pay well and a cost of living that, while high, is nowhere close to other technology hubs.

But it's not for everyone. If your skills are limited to pouring coffee or waiting tables, well, we already have more than enough so you're not going to be able to make it very easily. Those people get to live in dumpy apartments with a bunch of roommates.

The people who are happy with Portland are the people who have succeeded. They don't live in crappy apartments. They don't live in neighborhoods where they fear getting mugged on the sidewalk.

The people at the bottom will be marginalized and unhappy almost anywhere with a functioning economy because those who do well price out those who don't.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

The people who are happy with Portland are the people who have succeeded.
They don't live in crappy apartments. They don't live in neighborhoods where
they fear getting mugged on the sidewalk.

JasonF has got it.

My old neighborhood is Woodstock.
When I was growing up there, it was mostly blue collar and looked down upon by the residents of West and EastMoreland.
Sellwood was also in the same boat, look what happened there!

Brentwood Darlington (Errol Heights) was crime ridden felony flats no-mans land.

Now, the only people that can afford to live there (Woodstock) tend to be younger folks with two income families.
Those two incomes tend to be professional, as in Engineering, sales and marketing, business owners, management, etc.

The Woodstock blue collar contingent is gone, if not rapidly disappearing.

I would say that to live the "Portland Dream", of buying a house in the inner eastside, owning and driving at least one Subaru or hybrid, having a kid or two, a dog, skiing, biking, food carting, hiking, etc, takes at least 100k a year to pull off.

You are not going to be able to live that way making 20 bucks an hour.

[bler144]

Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx

JasonF has got it.
The Woodstock blue collar contingent is gone, if not rapidly disappearing.

I would say that to live the "Portland Dream", of buying a house in the inner eastside, owning and driving at least one Subaru or hybrid, having a kid or two, a dog, skiing, biking, food carting, hiking, etc, takes at least 100k a year to pull off.

You are not going to be able to live that way making 20 bucks an hour.

Agree - I see that dynamic even in my far-east neighborhood, albeit more slowly.

There are still a few younger blue collar people living on the main thruways, where the traffic whizzing by keeps prices down a bit (though even on the thruway asking prices are starting to jump).

Back in the residential neighborhoods it's a mix of blue collar families who've been there 20+ years, and younger white collar families slowly displacing them - probably not quite wealthy enough to buy/rent in inner SE, but there's not a huge discount to live east of 205 anymore if you want to live in one of the nicer residential neighborhoods.

[freemkt]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

False. There is plenty of growth happening within the UGB and especially where it is most desirable to live.

Growth + people fleeing = WTF

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by freemkt

Growth + people fleeing = WTF

Your post makes no sense.....