Oregon’s Stupid No Salt Policy (Portland, Bend: neighborhoods, dangerous, garden)

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by EasyBeezy

I find it offensive that you apparently equate support for the limited application of road salt to voting for Trump.

Your analogy is flawed. Used motor oil is a major environmental hazard. It contains poisonous toxins and hundreds if not thousands of chemicals that would not be found in nature and have no place in our ecology. Salt, also known as sodium chloride, is a simple compound of two of the most basic elements in the periodic chart. It is not only one of the most common compounds in nature, but is essential to all life, plant and animal. Animals store more NaCl in their cells than plants, but both need it to survive. It is found in massive deposits, as well as distributed in almost all soil to some degree.

Salt is not toxic unless applied in deliberately excessive amounts. While nature doesn't necessarily need salt distributed on the roads in inclement weather, it can be easily absorbed by nature in the amounts we're talking about.

The #1 question for me is the effect is has on cars. It's ability to turn cars into rustbuckets is well documented. However, even in the eastern states where they salt liberally, this isn't as much of a problem as it used to be. The cars these days are MUCH better at resisting the effects of road salt. You no longer see rusted out 10 year old cars over there like you did in the 80's and 90's.

ODOT commenting on their planned application of salt. ODOT may use road salt in the Portland area | KGW.com

More faulty logic. Doh, every toxic substance is toxic, only in excessive amounts. Road salt is a toxic substance, and as such should only be used when absolutely necessary. The fact that the state of Oregon has made it this long without using it, proves that it is not necessary in Oregon.

[USDefault]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

The fact that the state of Oregon has made it this long without using it, proves that it is not necessary in Oregon.

Once again, wrong. Oregon has indeed been salting the roads for years. As this report from 2013 confirms, ODOT has been salting the mountain passes, greatly improving transportation safety.

Using salt to curb snow and ice buildup on the Siskiyou Pass may be cutting the number of traffic accidents in half and significantly reducing delays and road closures, according to the Oregon Department of Transportation.

ODOT began using salt on the pass a year ago to improve road conditions and consistency on the freeway from the California border to about 11 miles into Oregon.

What's more, ODOT reports ZERO environmental impacts:

ODOT spokesman Gary Leaming said the salt has been very effective in lessening the number of road closures and chain restrictions on the pass, and he has yet to find any measurable environmental impacts, something he said the department is monitoring closely.

You've been wrong about everything. This is but the latest glaring error. Nothing you say can be trusted. Accidents have been reduced, transportation greatly improved, zero environmental impacts. These are the facts. End of discussion.

[MrTomJones]

"Yet to find any environmental impacts"

The snow storm happened like a month ago... you don't see cars rusting to pieces or plants dying in just one month. But it happens.

[BendLocal]

Road salt's negative impact on the environment.

Road Salt is Polluting our Rivers

How much salt ends up in our water? A lot — 84% of US streams measured in a recent research publication had increased chloride concentrations. That’s from the chloride half of Sodium Chloride (NaCl), the most common salt used on roads. Nearly 30% percent of sites monitored were over the toxic chloride levels of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) more than 100 days a year.

EPA’s threshold of 230 mg/L is the concentration of chloride above which the water is unsafe for wildlife (and tastes terrible to people). Chloride runoff from highways has been measured over 25,000 mg/L.

[EasyBeezy]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

More faulty logic. Doh, every toxic substance is toxic, only in excessive amounts. Road salt is a toxic substance, and as such should only be used when absolutely necessary. The fact that the state of Oregon has made it this long without using it, proves that it is not necessary in Oregon.

How can something be inherently toxic if it is an essential ingredient for all life? And I wouldn't call total gridlock in one inch of snow "making it"

[oldtrader]

How can something be inherently toxic if it is an essential ingredient for all life? And I wouldn't call total gridlock in one inch of snow "making it"

Life can only handle a certain amount of many things, which can be an essential ingredient for all life. An overdose of things like salt, can kill life. Many, many people have to have a salt restricted diet, such as people with heart problems.

Portland has 2 big rivers, and to keep from contaminating them certain things have been restricted.

The thing is each person can take control of their own transportation needs. Expecting normal summer tires to handle ice covered roads is stupid. This is where chains and winter tires with studs are a great solution. What a lot of people do not understand is the rubber used in summer tires, get hard and has no grip in icy cold weather. Snow tires are made of a much softer rubber, under freezing conditions gives them more grip.

Even the big tire companies, tell you if you want grip on ice, you need special tires.

Winter & Snow Tires vs. All Season Tires | Bridgestone Tires

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/...ter-tires.html

Add studs, and problem is solved, and you have grip. If you do not have proper tires for road conditions at the time, you should stay off the road. It should be the individual driver's responsibility to put tires on their cars, that do the job they are intended for, and not expect the government to do things that harm the environment, so they can use bad equipment (tires) that will not get them to their destination safely.

[EasyBeezy]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

Life can only handle a certain amount of many things, which can be an essential ingredient for all life. An overdose of things like salt, can kill life. Many, many people have to have a salt restricted diet, such as people with heart problems.

This is exactly what I said when I wrote that salt is not toxic unless applied in deliberately excessive amounts. So you and I agree at least on that point. Cloudy days believes any amount of salt is toxic no matter how minute.

I saw on the news last night that the only place in the metro area where ODOT used salt was on 26 between the tunnels and Sylvan. Not exactly a widespread application.

[BendLocal]

Long term studies show that salting roads leads to measurable problems for the environment.

Road Salt is Polluting our Rivers

All this salt in our waterways is a problem, especially for humans that are trying to reduce salt in their diet. A third of drinking water wells in Minnesota’s Twin Cities area have chloride concentrations above the EPA level. In Madison Wisconsin, some wells have been abandoned because of salt contamination.

Animals that live in fresh water are affected as well. It’s not just bugs that are harmed; salamanders grow slowly in salty rivers. Newts are deformed when exposed to icing salts. The food web of a river begins to unravel, since plants and little spineless things affected by salt provide food for larger animals. Birds, especially little songbirds, can die after consuming road salt.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by BendLocal

Long term studies show that salting roads leads to measurable problems for the environment.

Road Salt is Polluting our Rivers

You posted the same article yesterday.

No one's talking about dumping road salt in Oregon for months on end.

[BendLocal]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

No one's talking about dumping road salt in Oregon for months on end.

Aren't we? Start with a little here and there and before we know it areas around Mt Hood, Central Oregon, Klamath Falls, etc will be demanding salt for their roads.