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Thanks, Minervah. Were I still in Portland, I would offer to buy you a cup or glass of whatever just to have the chance to chat. I'm sorry about your friends.
I'm sorry about your job situation, and wish that I could disagree with your conclusion about age in Portland. From what I could see, the "elderly" (and I don't think 62 is elderly, by any means) are particularly invisible there; the city, as it is now, seems hyperfocused on youth, and humans become obsolete there at a particularly early age, compared with other regions. Older folks are probably not venerated in the rest of the country, either, but the variety (Portlanders would say "diversity") of many generations is particularly absent there...there's just not much for them. Even in the Oregonian and on the evening news, there's very little representation or acknowledgment that they exist. And the fact that Portlanders toss around the word "old" as a pejorative is just goddam sad.
Your comments about Portland a generation ago are interesting, because I found myself wishing I'd lived there in the 1970s or 1980s, when things were probably more depressed but less boutique-y and hip. Portland still has the vestiges of a vital, more salty city, but it doesn't seem to have the variety and vibrance that one feels in a place where the vitality and energy of youth mixes with some of the sagacity and serenity of age, of surviving circumstances both joyful and hard.
It's never too late to move - is there any place you're thinking of?
H'mm I'll take that drink as long as it isn't Starbucks!
Yes job-wise it wasn't so great in the 70's - 80's but there was so much opportunity for people of all ages. I think I mentioned my story in another post so bear with me if you have read this before. When I moved here I was a single woman in my 30's. The town was family oriented but not as rabid as it is now. The park district and PCC had cheap evening classes for people of all ages from mystery book reading to acting to harmonica bands and more.
People of all ages signed up for these classes, like me they were single and looking for something interesting to do after work rather than run home to a spouse and kids. I participated in many activities including volunteering to help out at old folks' homes. Mostly I focused on the amateur acting classes that were offered all over the place for people of all ages.
Many actors formed their own groups as well as ran little store front theaters and schools. One could learn and perform at the same time. I also volunteered for our one local professional theater for 15 years. Besides that I had an eclectic group of like-minded friends with whom I took trips, went to concerts, science fiction conventions and just hung out with. These are the friends to whom I referred who are gone now. All of them moved away when they lost their jobs in the 90's and had to go on to better areas.
The actors all moved on too. Now we have professional theater but nothing for fun as we once had. More and more young families are moving into the town and turning it into a staid family atmosphere. They may be green, and consider themselves liberal but to me they are sheeple; People + Sheep who follow the crowd.
One thing I have noticed here that people who are the happiest have jobs and nice homes. I did once too. But when I was laid off I realized the nasty little truth; it is almost impossible to get another job as good as the one that was lost and at the same salary. All the while the cost of living continues to stay way behind our paychecks.
I don't know where I want to go yet.
I am a frequent flyer on this website hoping to find a city that I think will suit my needs. I am saving money to move researching places that are kinder in hiring older people. BTW thanks for the 62 isn't old comment. I don't think so either. AARP had lists of places in which people of a "certain age" have a better chance of finding a job. Ideally I would like to start collecting Social Security and work part-time while still pursuing my muse which has gotten very dusty in my closet somewhere.
GB1, as a transplant here 3 years now I agree wholeheartedly with your post, particularly the community obsession, passive-aggressiveness, and the surface "niceness" that exist here. It's not authentic niceness - it's just because people here are so non-confrontational they can't handle it if people aren't nice.
Also, diversity is a bumper sticker in Portland, not a reality. You usually don't see black people unless you go to North Portland. Sad.
The "nonconformist conformity" that is rampant here makes me laugh, too. Somebody, have a different opinion, please!
Can't wait to leave! The hipsters & rich hippies can have it!
I totally agree with eveything you said about Portland. Moved here from Atlanta 8 months ago, and I am already bored with the poeple. It's impossible to make friends. It feels very Stepford to me, but the views are fantastic!
I'll add: driving is terrifying, they're space invaders and, although the transit system really is impressive, you have to stomach the scent of homeless people and their homeless dogs regularly.
I personally find it terribly inconsiderate also that dogs are everywhere. They're considered a "dog friendly" city. I wish they'd change that to "unfriendly to people with allergies." (By the way, I love dogs.)
Portland is more about appearances than substance. It's all talk.
Almost everyone from the East and Mid-West I met, when you ask them how do they like it, you always exchange this look. It's the Portland look. You'll see.
Edit: Ooh, ooh, I forgot! The men. You know how men talk to men and then they change their tone for women? The men talk to each other with women tones. It's so gross.
Men are very, very feminine there. Catty. It's weird... Then, of course, if you're a good looking guy, there's being hit on daily by men.
Now that I'm typing this out, I say go! Go see it for yourself. LOL. It took a couple years before I was able to explain the peculiarities. Such as, they never really apologize when they're wrong. They have this sneaky verbal retreat.
Remember in high-school how you'd blow people off because you'd change your mind... Then someone does it to you and you're like,"That sucks. No wonder so'n'so never talked to me again." From then on, you never blew anyone off again... You know, because you were growing up? I have watched forty yr. olds blowing people off there regularly.
I still can't explain it, but I'll say this. If you don't value authentic self-confidence, it's for you.
Edit: Ooh, ooh, I forgot! The men. You know how men talk to men and then they change their tone for women? The men talk to each other with women tones. It's so gross.
Men are very, very feminine there. Catty. It's weird... Then, of course, if you're a good looking guy, there's being hit on daily by men.
I'm clearly missing something here. As someone who is actively involved in approaching women, dating women, and moving on to other women, I get no sense that men in general here are effeminate. I've seen my competition, and they're just lazy and unmotivated, not estrogen-charged.
Also, I am a good looking guy and have never been hit on by other men. If you mistyped and meant that women hit on good looking men, that's only true if there's a serious age divergence (ie. really young, basically illegal, High School girls, or the pushing forty crowd.) In my experience, women here are lazy, just like the men.
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Now that I'm typing this out, I say go! Go see it for yourself. LOL. It took a couple years before I was able to explain the peculiarities. Such as, they never really apologize when they're wrong. They have this sneaky verbal retreat.
Are we talking about men again? I rarely apologize, but never retreat. In seduction, retreating from a woman shows weakness that will gain you disrespect. There are other ways to smoothe things over that are more "alpha."
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I have watched forty yr. olds blowing people off there regularly.
Which gender? A lot of women at that age range are trying to fool male biology into thinking there's value there, by disqualifying suitors. It doesn't work, as we have eyes to see the goods, so to speak. People only price themselves out of the market with that sort of behavior.
I'm clearly missing something here. As someone who is actively involved in approaching women, dating women, and moving on to other women, I get no sense that men in general here are effeminate. I've seen my competition, and they're just lazy and unmotivated, not estrogen-charged.
Men talk to men like they're talking to women. It took me about a dozen interviews before I figured out why I was getting a cool reception by potential employers: I didn't talk nice and light as if to imply "you're OK, I'm not a scary boy..."
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Originally Posted by VA
Also, I am a good looking guy and have never been hit on by other men. If you mistyped and meant that women hit on good looking men, that's only true if there's a serious age divergence (ie. really young, basically illegal, High School girls, or the pushing forty crowd.) In my experience, women here are lazy, just like the men.
Oh no, I meant men.
Actually women chasing me was the best part of Portland. It was like they were so took by MidWest masculinity and directness, they'd go nuts. I didn't have any unusually young women hitting on me, but if they were in their early twenties and up, they were throwing it at me... even after I shaved my head to curb the homosexual advances. (Thank God, it worked!)
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Originally Posted by VA
Are we talking about men again? I rarely apologize, but never retreat.
Both. However, the verbal retreat was only when you cornered them (Portlanders) with deductive logic so that they had to acknowledge that something wasn't right.
In every other single case, if a Portlander did something wrong, they'd get this funny look. (The Portland look.) They'd glaze over as they disconnected from the situation. However, like you, they rarely apologized.
I attribute it to immense arrogance. I frequently apologize. I, like everyone else, do things wrong all the time. I bump into people accidentally, I speak loud on my cell phone and realize someone is nearby. I cut someone off while driving. Portlanders don't apologize for those things.
You're a great rep for Portland. You rarely apologize and rarely retreat? Why is that? You're not perfect. You do inconsiderate things just like everyone else everyday of the week.
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Originally Posted by VA
Which gender? A lot of women at that age range are trying to fool male biology into thinking there's value there, by disqualifying suitors. It doesn't work, as we have eyes to see the goods, so to speak. People only price themselves out of the market with that sort of behavior.
Men and women. Use of age was to highlight that where others, such as myself, learn these lessons at the ripe age of 16, Portlanders continue it forever.
You're a great rep for Portland. You rarely apologize and rarely retreat? Why is that? You're not perfect. You do inconsiderate things just like everyone else everyday of the week.
We're talking about two different things. I'm talking about intimate relationships, you're talking about casual "excuse me" stuff. Not apologizing for being in someone's way, loud cell phone talk, etc. is not a Portland thing. It's far worse in San Fransicko, New York, Chicago, and a dozen other cities. By comparison, Portlanders are much more polite.
We're talking about two different things. I'm talking about intimate relationships, you're talking about casual "excuse me" stuff. Not apologizing for being in someone's way, loud cell phone talk, etc. is not a Portland thing. It's far worse in San Fransicko, New York, Chicago, and a dozen other cities. By comparison, Portlanders are much more polite.
Good luck with that gay bait thing.
You're perfect.
Portland has a half-million people. It's a town, not a big city. Comparing the rude factor of Portland to Chicago is like trying to explain away a stabbing in a boxing match by claiming that there's stabbings in prison.
Calling it "excuse me stuff" is representative of the culture... and is part of the sneakiness that is pervasive. The difference between "excuse me" and "I'm sorry" is the former is a request for someone else to do something whereas the latter is a form of submission.
"Excuse me" in the Portlanders application is an effort to get around trouble without asking forgiveness. (Coming from a culture where you use "excuse me" to get through a crowd, I never became accustomed to people saying "Oh, you're OK" whenever I was trying to get through.)
That's sneaky without the retreating... it's an ego preservation thing.
Finally, you finish up in typicaly Portland style with passive-aggressive attack ("gay baiting" stuff) which is an exquisite example of how Portlanders treat people who don't agree with them.
Nicely done. You represent your culture perfectly.
Edit: Your "gay baiting" comment is an example of the cattiness I mentioned in the first post.
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Diversity
