Chain & snow tires? (Portland, Detroit: buy, living in, vs.)

[fortunatus]

When temperatures get below 40 degrees, regular tire rubber hardens, decreasing traction. Winter tires are made of softer material that maintains its grip in the cold. So snow or no snow, I got into the habit of swapping all-seasons for studless winter tires and now am doing it religiously: November to, March fro. My tire people are Les Schwab.

I consider chains a must-have for any drive to any ski resort, unless I drive an AWD _with_ winter tires. Get regular chains that match your tire size at an auto store such as Baxter Auto Parts. As for installing them, I allowed myself ample time the first time around, just doing it by the instruction insert. Half an hour of suffering - and I will never unlearn this skill.

[mathlete]

Are tire socks useful for drives to ski resorts? My car is FWD with new studless winter tires but my dealership advised against chains because of limited wheel well clearance so Les Schwab advised tire socks.

[BendLocal]

It looks like warm temperatures are the main cause of increased tread wear when running dedicated snow tires.

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/trea...res-year-round

Winter tires are specially designed for cold temperatures and winter precipitation. Once it gets warm, you won't need deep tread depths to handle snow or biting edges for traction on ice. Here are some specific reasons why using winter tires year round is not recommended.

The specialized compounds and tread designs of winter tires are not designed for optimal warm climate performance and wear. Generally speaking, the softer tread of a winter tire will wear out faster in warmer temperatures. If you keep winter tires on your vehicle after winter has come and gone, you will have to replace them sooner than had you removed them for springtime.

[Thom52]

Originally Posted by mathlete

Are tire socks useful for drives to ski resorts? My car is FWD with new studless winter tires but my dealership advised against chains because of limited wheel well clearance so Les Schwab advised tire socks.

An interesting question. Tire socks are good for one time use, at best. i.e. I would not suggest them if you plan to actually use them. But I wonder if carrying them covers the silly rule that says even with studded snow tires on an AWD Subie, you must carry chains.

Subaru advises against chains/cables, so investing a bunch of cash into chains that are heavy and bulky and will never be used, is not something I like to do. At least the socks are lightweight and I assume not bulky to store in the car to point to when at a SP checkpoint. Right now I try to remember to dig up and toss in a set of cables from about 3 cars ago that would never fit, but give me something to point at.

I also generally just avoid driving if conditions are bad enough to exceed studded snow tires on a Subie capability.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

BTW, there is a rumor going around that it will snow in Portland next week

[steveburbank]

I hope this isn't considered hijacking to add a quick question, otherwise, let me know and I'll start a new thread.

I'm in Boise now, and it's snowing, and I may have to start my 1800 mile road trip to Houston this month, during the worst of the snow.
However, I'm driving only freeways ( and streets, of course, whenever I get off a freeway to get gas or food or b/r ).

Do I need snow chains?

I think of freeways as important roads -- that all the local City Gov'ts between here and there -- would keep mostly clear and plowed for drivers, and I'm not doing any kind of alternative type scene-driving since I just want to get there.

** Forgot to add: Type of Car: 2005 Ford Focus Sedan

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by steveburbank

I hope this isn't considered hijacking to add a quick question, otherwise, let me know and I'll start a new thread.

I'm in Boise now, and it's snowing, and I may have to start my 1800 mile road trip to Houston this month, during the worst of the snow.
However, I'm driving only freeways ( and streets, of course, whenever I get off a freeway to get gas or food or b/r ).

Do I need snow chains?

I think of freeways as important roads -- that all the local City Gov'ts between here and there -- would keep mostly clear and plowed for drivers, and I'm not doing any kind of alternative type scene-driving since I just want to get there.

** Forgot to add: Type of Car: 2005 Ford Focus Sedan

Are you ever coming back to Boise? If so, I'd grab a pair at Wal-Mart. You can always return them to the Wal-Mart in Houston if you keep the receipt and don't use them. The people at the Houston Wal-Mart won't know what they are but the reciept wil come up in their system so they should take them back if they are unopened and unused.

If you have decent tires with decent tread the chance that you'll actually need them is about 1 in 100 but if it were me, I'd not want to do a cross country trip through snow country without chains or snow tires.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

The thing about snow driving in Portland is that there is usually a nice layer of slick ice under a couple of inches of snow.

Slick when it starts, then slick to drive on, and the ice usually melts last because it has frozen the ground beneath it.

Add hills and curves and clueless people with normal tires, and the whole city shuts down for a couple of days, while the rest of the country laughs at us and endless youtube videos are posted about how bad Portland drivers are......

[steveburbank]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

Are you ever coming back to Boise? If so, I'd grab a pair at Wal-Mart. You can always return them to the Wal-Mart in Houston if you keep the receipt and don't use them. The people at the Houston Wal-Mart won't know what they are but the reciept wil come up in their system so they should take them back if they are unopened and unused.

If you have decent tires with decent tread the chance that you'll actually need them is about 1 in 100 but if it were me, I'd not want to do a cross country trip through snow country without chains or snow tires.

I am not returning to Boise but I'll take your advice and at the very least by a set of chains and put them in the car along with their instructions . Thanks .

[Tipsy McStagger]

Studded tires are incredibly common in Portland, and for the most part completely unnecessary unless you are running up to the ski resorts five times a week. The UP of Michigan was mentioned as a place with lots of studded snow tire use? They're absolutely illegal to use in Michigan much like most of the upper midwest because they shred the roads. You hear cars go by with them constantly here in PDX in the winter while it's 50 and drizzling for weeks on end. Makes zero sense.

Non-studded snow tires are fairly useless here as the typical winter daytime high is right around where the benefit of using winter tires ends (~48F), and it never really gets cold enough to reap the benefit of the softer tread/sipes vs. somewhere like Minneapolis or Detroit where you get consistent below freezing temps for weeks/months on end, with average lows in the single digits.

There are actually very few climates where all season tires are the best choice, however Portland is one of them with a mild range of temperatures, very little snow and no reason to drive it in anyway as Nell pointed out. January of 2017 we had a snow event totaling around 13 inches, no big deal elsewhere. We didn't get mail for ten days, and people were abandoning cars on the freeways and walking home. Everyone loses their mind here during any sort of winter weather. Total pandemonium. Stay home if possible, the roads will melt soon anyway.

In Minneapolis, I always ran separate winter and summer tires/wheels because it made sense. Contrary to opinions expressed earlier this is NOT more expensive over the long run as you are using each combination half the year so you replace half as frequently, even when you account for the cost of a second set of cheap winter wheels. Excellent winter tires and excellent summer tires are generally much less expensive than decent all-seasons so the cost balances out over time. In PDX you run snow tires for 2-3 months at most, never really reaping the benefit because it just isn't cold enough. If you have a winter with even slightly above normal temps, winter tires are utterly pointless and will wear faster than designed as pointed out earlier.

Agree that your best bet here is to buy high quality all-seasons that deal particularly well with wet roads, and get some chains...which you won't even use every year let alone with any regularity.