But what about the black people? (Portland, Oakland: credit, law, shop)

[SeattlitefromNC]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

dont know but i would go where there is opportunity. skin tone would not be my compass never has been which has led me thru an interesting life.

That's perfectly fine, but everyone has a right to feel safe.

Let's not forget that Oregon's history with black people is not a shining beacon of inclusion.

Slavery and Exclusion Laws in Oregon (http://www.endoftheoregontrail.org/slavery.html - broken link)

Timeline of Black History in Oregon (http://www.endoftheoregontrail.org/blaktime.html - broken link)

There is a historical context to these questions which cannot be ignored.

I'm not saying that Oregon is like that now; it's not. But, when you are a minority and you see that a city that so few black people in it, the first question you ask is "why?" That is a natural question, and it deserves a natural answer.

Portland is a lovely and deeply eccentric place; I live there part of the year. You are more likely to see white people there with locs than black people. That fact, particularly, lead to an interesting exchange with a white man (that I did not know) who proceeded to lecture me on how to wear my hair (our hair textures were not at all similar) and how I was "denying my heritage" by not wearing locs. It was one of those deeply bizarre exchanges that one has in a deeply eccentric city. Strange and beautiful at the same time ...

Give it a go. There are things I like about Portland (the transit, the friendliness) and things I do not care for (the homogeny, the aggressive bums), but Portland is Portland and overall, it is a nice place.

[oldtintype]

Originally Posted by SeattlitefromNC

That's perfectly fine, but everyone has a right to feel safe.

Let's not forget that Oregon's history with black people is not a shining beacon of inclusion.
Slavery and Exclusion Laws in Oregon (http://www.endoftheoregontrail.org/slavery.html - broken link)
[url=http://www.endoftheoregontrail.org/blaktime.html]

I'm not saying that Oregon is like that now; it's not. But, when you are a minority and you see that a city that so few black people in it, the first question you ask is "why?" That is a natural question, and it deserves a natural answer.

.

What community in the US HAS been a "shining beacon of inclusion?" There were laws that were inappropriate in every state in the country. With that philosophy the Asian population in San Francisco should be small given that the laws against Chinese people in SF/CA were terrible in the late 1800s and into the early 1900s. But the population there is huge.

And how about you'll find those stats (small black population) in most west coast cities? Look at San Francisco even--probably the most diverse city on the west coast and the black population is small as well. It's no secret that until WWII the black population on the west coast was extremely small to non existent and only grew to what it is now because of the available jobs during the 1940s which encouraged people to move west. There have never been large black populations on the west coast compared to the east and south and in small cities like Portland, which didn't have the number of jobs that places like Los Angeles did in the 40s, there weren't as many people who moved here during WWII. And when there aren't large populations of a certain group of people, it tends to prevent people from moving there--not because they can't but because they don't feel the same draw. The large number of Russian people in Portland is in part because family members are already here, there's an established community, etc. It's not because Russian immigrants are drawn to Portland itself--they're drawn to community. I imagine it's the same for most people, no matter what their racial or ethnic background is.

[SeattlitefromNC]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

What community in the US HAS been a "shining beacon of inclusion?" There were laws that were inappropriate in every state in the country. With that philosophy the Asian population in San Francisco should be small given that the laws against Chinese people in SF/CA were terrible in the late 1800s and into the early 1900s. But the population there is huge.

And how about you'll find those stats (small black population) in most west coast cities? Look at San Francisco even--probably the most diverse city on the west coast and the black population is small as well. It's no secret that until WWII the black population on the west coast was extremely small to non existent and only grew to what it is now because of the available jobs during the 1940s which encouraged people to move west. There have never been large black populations on the west coast compared to the east and south and in small cities like Portland, which didn't have the number of jobs that places like Los Angeles did in the 40s, there weren't as many people who moved here during WWII. And when there aren't large populations of a certain group of people, it tends to prevent people from moving there--not because they can't but because they don't feel the same draw. The large number of Russian people in Portland is in part because family members are already here, there's an established community, etc. It's not because Russian immigrants are drawn to Portland itself--they're drawn to community. I imagine it's the same for most people, no matter what their racial or ethnic background is.

The numbers of black people in the West swelled during the '40's, mostly due to the expansion of building infrastructure post WWII. As work was had in the west, black people moved to meet that need.

The numbers nowadays reflect the rise of economies in the South, especially in places where there are strong communities of black people. The work is there and the people are there ... so it makes sense that many black people would choose the South over Oregon right now.

By the way, there were communities that did not have exclusion laws ... in the South, no less. Racial conflict is not a given. There are places in this country known more for racial harmony than conflict.

[Leisesturm]

The livelihoods and futures of working class African Americans in the southern states are being decimated by the influx of Hispanic labor from Central and South America. The farms, chicken and meat packing industries, construction, light manufacturing have seen a near total shift towards using Hispanic labor when available.

When did race relations in Oregon ever resemble the madness that must have been the Jim Crow South? Nevertheless millions of black families stayed there despite being technically "free" and still stay there now despite the new challenges of the rise of a new minority group that occupies their same economic niche.

I am uncertain as to just what some people want Oregon to do about its lack of an abounding black population. I am just presuming but I don't imagine places like Chyenne, WY or Fargo, ND or Billings, MT are very 'diverse' places. Some places simply were not attractive to African Americans, I suspect, for exactly the reasons that oldtintype has stated. Huckleberry is dead on, one doesn't have to move to uncharted destinations, one can stay with the majority and feel 'safe' if, indeed there is saftety in numbers but I have found that the 'road less traveled' has never lead to a lack of safety. In my life I have been mugged four times, once left for dead and unconscious for nearly ten minutes. All these events were in my youth and young adulthood and all took place in the rough neighborhoods of Brooklyn where I grew up and all the attacks were at the hands of other blacks. Hillsboro, OR maintains 'Sundown Laws' to this very day. I can tell you that the heckling and rude behavior by motorists towards me increases after sundown. However the only difference between Hillsboro and New York City is that New York has a vast metropolitan area that functions as neutral turf and also has individual racial enclaves within which ones own nationality is relatively safe. But there is no guarantee that as an African American if I were to venture into Bensonhurst after dark and alone that I would not be the victim of the exact same heckling that I have seen displayed in Hillsboro. This notwithstanding the fact that the African American population of New York city is hundreds of times the size of Portlands.

H

[PDXmom]

Originally Posted by SeattlitefromNC

That's perfectly fine, but everyone has a right to feel safe.

Let's not forget that Oregon's history with black people is not a shining beacon of inclusion.

Slavery and Exclusion Laws in Oregon (http://www.endoftheoregontrail.org/slavery.html - broken link)

Timeline of Black History in Oregon (http://www.endoftheoregontrail.org/blaktime.html - broken link)

Thank you for posting these links. When I lived in Oregon I took a couple of Oregon History Classes so that I could better understand the state I was living in. I was always surprised at how many transplants did not know about the issues those 2 links discuss. No where has a spotless past, even clean pristine Oregon. I say this because a transplanted classmate in this history class basically said that everyone (Portland) is so liberal and the state is so clean and beautiful that you don't think things like this could happen.

This historical context is part of the answer, jobs, and distance are other parts. But no one part is more important than others. We need to recognize them all and I think that is what SeattlitefromNC is saying. Knowing our history keeps us from making the same mistakes.

We moved from Portland to a Durham NC where the population is 50% African American. We picked this area in part to expose our children to racial diversity. My daughter loves watching her friend next door have her hair braded by her mom. And they talk about how their hair is different. We love this. BUT we do miss the other types of diversity.... our children do not have friends here who have 2 moms like we knew in Portland. We see mostly "able bodied" people here. There is diversity in Portland, just not a whole lot of racial diversity.

Originally Posted by oldtintype

The large number of Russian people in Portland is in part because family members are already here, there's an established community, etc. It's not because Russian immigrants are drawn to Portland itself--they're drawn to community. I imagine it's the same for most people, no matter what their racial or ethnic background is.

We have a good friend in Portland who is Russian. He said that after Russia started to break apart there was some guy (he describes him as a crazed evangelical... but not religious) who would appear on Russian TV and told people they should move to Portland, Oregon because it is the best place in the country for Russians. At this particular time there were not many Russians already in Portland... so people weren't moving to be near family. They were moving because someone they trusted/liked told them it was a good idea. Then others followed to be near their families and communities etc like ott points out.

[Nell Plotts]

Back in the 80s Woodburn had an influx of Old Believer refugees of Russian descent. From a distance Portland and Woodburn may look like one community.

[Bluesmama]

Originally Posted by Nell Plotts

Back in the 80s Woodburn had an influx of Old Believer refugees of Russian descent. From a distance Portland and Woodburn may look like one community.

There's that awesome little Russian Orthodox Church we spotted from the freeway one day. I wasn't sure yet what kind of church it was, so we took the detour to drive over and look at it. An older man with a thick accent and beard came over and told us it was a Russian Orthodox. Well worth going over to look at it, although I felt a little like an interloper.

[meltinjohn]

Places with more racial diversity typically dont have great schools for kids unfortunately. It was the same in the northeast, white bread schools got quality ed.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

The livelihoods and futures of working class African Americans in the southern states are being decimated by the influx of Hispanic labor from Central and South America. The farms, chicken and meat packing industries, construction, light manufacturing have seen a near total shift towards using Hispanic labor when available.

When did race relations in Oregon ever resemble the madness that must have been the Jim Crow South? Nevertheless millions of black families stayed there despite being technically "free" and still stay there now despite the new challenges of the rise of a new minority group that occupies their same economic niche.

I am uncertain as to just what some people want Oregon to do about its lack of an abounding black population. I am just presuming but I don't imagine places like Chyenne, WY or Fargo, ND or Billings, MT are very 'diverse' places. Some places simply were not attractive to African Americans, I suspect, for exactly the reasons that oldtintype has stated. Huckleberry is dead on, one doesn't have to move to uncharted destinations, one can stay with the majority and feel 'safe' if, indeed there is saftety in numbers but I have found that the 'road less traveled' has never lead to a lack of safety. In my life I have been mugged four times, once left for dead and unconscious for nearly ten minutes. All these events were in my youth and young adulthood and all took place in the rough neighborhoods of Brooklyn where I grew up and all the attacks were at the hands of other blacks. Hillsboro, OR maintains 'Sundown Laws' to this very day. I can tell you that the heckling and rude behavior by motorists towards me increases after sundown. However the only difference between Hillsboro and New York City is that New York has a vast metropolitan area that functions as neutral turf and also has individual racial enclaves within which ones own nationality is relatively safe. But there is no guarantee that as an African American if I were to venture into Bensonhurst after dark and alone that I would not be the victim of the exact same heckling that I have seen displayed in Hillsboro. This notwithstanding the fact that the African American population of New York city is hundreds of times the size of Portlands.

H

I wasn't aware that Hillsboro, OR still has sundown laws. I checked the statistics for Hillsboro and there is a substantial Hispanic population. The black population is microscopic in comparison but still there. What makes me question that is that the term "sundown law" means no minorities allowed in that down after dark, period and if there are minorities(blacks as well as hispanics and asians) living there, either the law has been repealed locally, ignored, or declared illegal by congress.

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I wasn't aware that Hillsboro, OR still has sundown laws.

I am sure they don't, officially. That is why sundown laws was in quotes. In the hearts and minds of 'some' Oregonians, however, such laws should never have been repealed so they are enforcing them unofficially.

H