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Transients are everywhere in Portland on private and public properties. The infestation is also spreading to suburbs. A few property owners I've talked to expressed "lack of action by law enforcement".
I can't help but agree.
When you walk around town, you see them drinking, littering, sleeping and loitering in alleys and doorways. All they have to do is arrive when the businesses close and leave before they open and nobody will do anything.
I find that the police dept does very little and I have a feeling that the Mayor is not willing to address the concerns of the community. The transients are starting to have an entitlement attitude and do not leave when they're told to leave by anyone. When the police are called, they simply tell them to "move on". Then, the very next day, they come again. Then the cops will just "ask" them to leave. The cycle repeats itself and it is a very mild environment for transients as they'd simply be asked to "leave" with no consequences when there are complaints.
Without having something to discourage them from returning, they will keep returning.
One thing I see in Portland more than any other city, is the large number of healthy, lazy and potentially employable young people who just sit around all day. Reminds me of the hippies during the summer of love in San Francisco (1967).
What do you expect exactly to be done? The problem with homeless people in ALL cities (it is NOT a Portland specific problem despite the commentary on this board) is there is a fine line between civil liberties and illegal behavior. Is it illegal to be homeless? No. Is it illegal to pee in public? Yes. So if people are doing something ILLEGAL something can be done about it. If the police SEE someone peeing they can do something about it. Just hearing about it isn't enough. Being homeless is not a crime or illegal, despite the fact that apparently the area isn't as perfect as you'd like it to be. If people are really bothered by homeless people there are plenty of organizations and mental health facilities to volunteer with or legislation to help provide affordable homes. Just bitching about it doesn't really help. To suggest that all homeless people are just lazy or choose to be homeless is really ignorant. The average homeless person has substance abuse or mental health issues.
If you want to see an example of policing transients check out the sheriffs department's patrol of the area outside the Central Library. They regularly walk the block looking for ILLEGAL behavior such as drinking in public, blocking walkways, etc. But they can't do anything about someone just being there, unless they hang out too long or are sitting on the sidewalk. What law would you like people arrested under for just existing in a way that doesn't please you aesthetically? What do you expect the police to do? Arrest every homeless looking person standing in front of a building? Do you know how many lawsuits would exist after something like that? Instead of blaming the police look in to the laws and existing services available, the availability of drug treatment programs, etc.
As for why they're here? It's a problem all across the west coast because people can live outside year round. Check out Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco and most every other large urban town/city on the west coast and you'll find homeless people, including in Canada.
Last edited by oldtintype; 08-11-2008 at 11:07 AM..
I'm from billings, montana thinking about heading to oregon like portland,gresham, corvallis.
Billings is a 'beautiul place but the 'economy is poor' it builds' but not so much buisness once a 'great west park plaza turned into a 'near dead end mall' So we only have One Full Successful mall here but is borning from time to time because it's the same ole & only one level.
We have 'rescue missions' for druggies, homeless people etc There is a Men's & Women's Shelter that is downright full and we have a Gateway House For Families who are getting abused.
We have 'gangs' bad thing of meth going on around here so are the drunks to many dui people.
Many bums get killed down here either by a bar fight but you would always hear of a 'bum' getting killed especially in winter but you wouldn't stop & talk to a bum down here unless you were in the 'shelter ' & helped out with the christmas party by singing xmas songs to them or feeding them thanksgiving dinner that's the only time you would talk to them.
Most of the rescue missions have people begging for pot ciggys we even get some of the 'bum's actually in walmart 24 hr sleeping under mcdonalds restaurant in the 'walmart'.
I been to london, england also & I saw a 'couple bums near the museum but not as near bad as montana is.
I been to 'california the southern & norther part but boy you 'should see some of the people's icky houses ! Plus the way they treat animals I did a 'rescue for guinea pigs and one cat when I was in california .
Bums were located in the NoHo (North hollywood district) more closer to the south noho area and there were 'creepy guys' there not just one of the 'bums' one time when I was 'walking from my apartment in NoHO in California and as I was 'crossing the 'street' this guy goes Do you want a 'ride' right through the window of his 'big camper like 'truck' so I ignore it of course 'he follows me' and then stops right next to the 'sidewalk i'm walking @ so I run of course he is 'there his truck still waiting -lucky he didn't follow me in because the 'store owner was gone from his inside spot . Otherwise I would have 'been trapped' indeed. But soon enough enough as that guy came back I pointed that guy out and he left.
I always thought i was safe living on the top floor of california til when I was a 'new mom & heard about a balcony killer down there climbing up actually killed a mom & a baby -freaky and while the dad was asleep in the other room!
Montana I have had drunks they break beer bottles in our parking lot! hanging around my apartment and even one of them stole my strawberry plant and I have peeping tom's.
Kids Kill here too as young as age ten by 'stabbing another kid at recess in playground that is why in half mind I want to homeschool my boy but of course 'crazies are around here even after 'school is over' sigh
Sadly we do see some mom's walking with their kids on the 'street' that is sad!
What do you expect exactly to be done? The problem with homeless people in ALL cities (it is NOT a Portland specific problem despite the commentary on this board) is there is a fine line between civil liberties and illegal behavior.
In instances I discussed, there is no fine line. They are on private property, such as doorways, roofed parking lots and alleys on privately owned premises where they're made aware that camping there is not welcomed.
Lets say people keeps coming to your, or your neighbor's backyard and won't leave/keeps coming back.
Would you like the police to just tell them "move on" every time for people who keeps returning?
Quote:
Is it illegal to be homeless? No.
You're correct, but it *is* illegal to keep returning to private property after being told to not come back. For example, if you're asked by Safeway to not come back to panhandle or asked by a property manager to not return to his premise, including the yard/parking lot, etc unless he's a tenant/visiting a tenant but you do, you are criminal trespassing.
I would certainly expect something beyond having them asked to "move on" for all but first offense.
Quote:
Is it illegal to pee in public? Yes. So if people are doing something ILLEGAL something can be done about it. If the police SEE someone peeing they can do something about it. Just hearing about it isn't enough. Being homeless is not a crime or illegal
But camping on a premise posted "no trespassing" *is* illegal.
[quote]
, despite the fact that apparently the area isn't as perfect as you'd like it to be. If people are really bothered by homeless people there are plenty of organizations and mental health facilities to volunteer with or legislation to help provide affordable homes. Just bitching about it doesn't really help. To suggest that all homeless people are just lazy or choose to be homeless is really ignorant. The average homeless person has substance abuse or mental health issues.[/qjuote]
I read that there are a lot of spaces available at shelters that go unused because the users voluntarily choose not to follow the rules. Letting them indulge their freedom to lifestyle no other people's property is not something that should be getting by.
Quote:
If you want to see an example of policing transients check out the sheriffs department's patrol of the area outside the Central Library. They regularly walk the block looking for ILLEGAL behavior such as drinking in public, blocking walkways, etc. But they can't do anything about someone just being there, unless they hang out too long or are sitting on the sidewalk.
The city requires you to have a permit to have a dog. Do they ever check that on transients? It's a discrimination against other owners if you're letting them get by without one.
Quote:
What law would you like people arrested under for just existing in a way that doesn't please you aesthetically?
There are plenty. For example, possession and concealing stolen property being one. When you have a shopping cart belonging to a store 1/2 mile away and it is filled with something that could not have reasonably come from the store, it's obvious that the cart is stolen.
Public elimination of waste could perhaps be challenged due to their living situations, however being homeless does not legalize:
open container
drinking in public (as drinking is not a required basic needs)
public intoxication
possession of stolen property, controlled substance, etc.
criminal trespassing
In instances I discussed, there is no fine line. They are on private property, such as doorways, roofed parking lots and alleys on privately owned premises where they're made aware that camping there is not welcomed.>>
And if the police are called they'll make them move. Do you expect them to arrest everyone? Do you think that happens in any city in this country? It doesn't.
<<Lets say people keeps coming to your, or your neighbor's backyard and won't leave/keeps coming back.
Would you like the police to just tell them "move on" every time for people who keeps returning?>>
How often do people come into your backyard? Give me a break. Unless you have an unfenced yard then once they enter your premises that would be committing a crime and then yes, they would be arrested or cited particularly if you had a lock on your gate.
<<You're correct, but it *is* illegal to keep returning to private property after being told to not come back. For example, if you're asked by Safeway to not come back to panhandle or asked by a property manager to not return to his premise, including the yard/parking lot, etc unless he's a tenant/visiting a tenant but you do, you are criminal trespassing.>>
Yes, and then exclusions are ordered and then they will be arrested for trespassing if they return such as happens with the library. You're assuming this doesn't happen. I think you may be confusing the right to stand on a public sidewalk and panhandle, which is not illegal, with standing on private property and doing the same. You also can't just verbally tell someone that they're excluded an order has to be issued, and many people do just that.
<<The city requires you to have a permit to have a dog. Do they ever check that on transients? It's a discrimination against other owners if you're letting them get by without one.>>
Actually the COUNTY requires you to have a license for both your dog AND your cat. Do you think they stop everyone with a dog or go door to door checking all the cats out there? Checking only homeless people's pets is discriminatory as I'm sure the police know. I have NEVER ever had my pets checked by anyone as long as I've lived here. When they start checking every residence and not the homeless then you can claim it's discriminatory against other owners. And how many people out there who aren't homeless have a license for their cat?
<<There are plenty. For example, possession and concealing stolen property being one. When you have a shopping cart belonging to a store 1/2 mile away and it is filled with something that could not have reasonably come from the store, it's obvious that the cart is stolen.>>
That would be why carts are confiscated all the time and the homeless tend to go for bike trailers now. Again, you're assuming the police never ever arrest anyone.
<<Public elimination of waste could perhaps be challenged due to their living situations, however being homeless does not legalize:
open container
drinking in public (as drinking is not a required basic needs)
public intoxication
possession of stolen property, controlled substance, etc.
criminal trespassing
>>
Yes and guess what--people are arrested all the time for this, excluded from locations and so on. I actually work somewhere where this is done regularly so I think you're making a lot of assumptions without knowing any actual details. You're also assuming that the police have nothing better to do than stand around, follow and harass homeless people. I'm more worried about murders, rape and burglary than I am chasing the homeless around. Quality of life issues need to be addressed but making the city into a police state isn't the answer either, especially given the civil rights issues that comes with that. The police are not able to just chase homeless people away and throw them all in jail for existing. They have laws to follow too. It would be nice if it was as easy as you seem to think it is to fix things but it's not.
Getting the transients out, or at least getting them to take their meds and go to shelters, presupposes you've got the money, manpower (peoplepower?) and political will to do it. It's the political will part that makes the most difference. If you had hundreds of people protesting about this issue in front of city hall every day, the mayor and the power brokers in the city would do something about it. But as you can see from reading the posts here, there are a lot of people who don't care and/or don't see it as a problem. Given that attitude, things won't change until they reach some sort of "intolerable" limit. And since Portland prides itself on being "tolerant," we're going to see some pretty wild stuff before the population and business owners finally put the collective foot down.
I don't think that people don't care or don't see it as a problem, it's just not a simple situation or something that can be "policed" away. I think people view it as something that if the police just "cracked down" the problems would go away and that's way more simplistic than reality.
If you go to Vancouver BC you will see they have a big problem near gas town--it's way more extensive than anything I've ever seen outside of the SF Tenderloin or parts of LA and I was shocked to see it in Canada. So it's not about just social services either.
Last edited by oldtintype; 08-11-2008 at 03:57 PM..
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