"Academics" and the intellectual atmosphere of Portland (Phoenix: credit, top schools)

[JuneOf48]

Hi, folks.

I'm not from Portland, and I probably won't end up there for more than a visit (as explained in the following post), but I have a question:

Does the lack of a large, high-quality research university impact the quality of life, demographics, and "feel" of the city?

I teach at a university in San Antonio, TX, and I have a place in Austin for the weekends. I love to be in an area where thousands of graduate students and professors fill the libraries, coffee shops, etc., while working feverishly on their theses and current projects. You don't get too much of that in San Antonio, but you do get it in Austin.

Portland clearly has Austin beat as far as natural beauty goes, but Austin appears to have a lot of the hipness of Portland, an equal if not better music scene (especially for the indie crowd), a similar liberal bent, a lot of young folks moving in, and probably a better economy and job scene.

So, back to the basic question: What does the absence of a large academic "scene," tied to the absence of a top-tier research institution, do to the feel of Portland? Reed and Portland State may have things to offer, but they're not of the size or caliber of UT or similar schools, which offer dozens and dozens of doctoral programs that attract the most ambitious academics in the country (and the world).

(By the way, I'm from Chicago, and I spent eight years in Hyde Park at the U of Chicago, so perhaps I'm too used to being within constant spitting distance of intense, budding, and established "intellectuals" [hate the word]. I'm trying not to come off as "snobby"--I'm a "nerd," after all, but I do like my punk rock and vegetarian food, which is why I have places like Portland and Austin on the mind!)

[karlsch]

It goes beyond Portland.

The entire state of Oregon does not have a single “prestigious” research university. For years many have said that this has hurt the state’s economic development. Cutting edge companies often do their research in conjunction with major universities.

Oregon’s “premier” university (the only one in the top tier) ranks as #108 on this list:
National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

In the all important engineering school rankings, Oregon’s top school, Oregon State, ranks as #80. Note that many of the top schools are public universities:

Search - Engineering - Best Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report

[Leisesturm]

It would appear that you hope someone will chime in here and try to defend Portland against your assertions or concur with you in damning it with faint praise. I will not do either. PDX is not seeking accreditation as a research triangle, neither are Boise, Denver, Phoenix or Seattle, Millions of people live happy, fulfilled lives in these places and millions... don't.

H

[PNW-type-gal]

From a science-based perspective, we do fairly well anyway. Although shrinking presently, the Silicon Forest attracts a lot of engineers and scientists, and OMSI has a pretty lively science-lecture circuit, as well as the "brew pub science circuit":

Science "pubs," "cafes" draw inquiring Portlanders. Top experts in a variety of fields give lectures, but quizzes are not on the menu - OregonLive.com

[figmalt]

Yeah, too bad OHSU only ranks as 35 in the top medical universities. Or does it not count as a "research university"? Frankly I'd take a fine medical university over some of these other 'scholarly' universities any day. At least it provides a useful service to the world and the city.

[karlsch]

Originally Posted by figmalt

Yeah, too bad OHSU only ranks as 35 in the top medical universities. Or does it not count as a "research university"?

Although OHSU is certainly a fine institution and does great work, it is too specialized to be categorized as a major research university.

So the answer to your question is: no.

[scone]

It's not Berkeley. People don't sit around here talking about quantum physics and Derrida. Apart from Reed, which is rather insular, Oregon does not have a top-tier liberal arts school. The Silicon Forest types may have a master's or a doctorate, but they are not necessarily well-educated outside their field of specialty. When they get together, the talk is remarkably suburban: schools, lawns, cars, sports, their kids.

There is an indie music and arts scene, but again it's not terribly intellectual, more like the stuff on etsy. The older crowd goes to the opera and ballet, but there's usually only one modern work every year. The art museum does have a new modern wing, with some very decent stuff. But when you go to their fundraiser parties, people don't talk about the art. They just "make face" with the usual trivial conversational chit-chat.

I've come to the conclusion that Portlanders don't feel comfortable having an abstract intellectual discussion. They may be perfectly capable of doing that sort of thing, but it just doesn't seem to happen.

[Isotope-C14]

Originally Posted by JuneOf48

Hi, folks.

Does the lack of a large, high-quality research university impact the quality of life, demographics, and "feel" of the city?

(By the way, I'm from Chicago, and I spent eight years in Hyde Park at the U of Chicago, so perhaps I'm too used to being within constant spitting distance of intense, budding, and established "intellectuals" [hate the word]. I'm trying not to come off as "snobby"--I'm a "nerd," after all, but I do like my punk rock and vegetarian food, which is why I have places like Portland and Austin on the mind!)

I must say that is a fantastic question. I'm also from Chicago (burbs) and went to school at UIUC. I'm currently running a lab here and enjoy my work very much. The lack of research universities and exposure to the sciences becomes apparent when engaging in any type of even semi-complex conversation with the native folks or those educated out here. I have yet to meet a single person here that would even reach the status of budding intellectual. I'm not going to say that there aren't any but quite frankly you learn a great deal of perspective from exposure to intellectuals. Folks that I've met here, some even with graduate degrees as well, are just not critical thinkers naturally and by no means intellectually stimulating. I hear over and over "you should keep an open mind to everything" when discussing scientifically implausible concepts such as the health benefits of homeopathic cures (water). I tend to apply occam's razor instead of being open minded to wearing aluminum foil hats to reflect the government mind control rays. People do not discuss anything (intentionally) out here that may be controversial in any way shape or form (unless everyone knows they all agree in advance). I was at this party when I first moved here and someone was saying something about Qi or Chi. I looked at the guy and and said, "You know, if Qi existed don't you think the military would be trying to make a Qi disruption weapon?". He looked at me like I killed twelve baby kittens in front of a kindergarten class, apparently a social faux pas out here to be critical of blind faith. It seems that normal Christianity wasn't weird enough for the Pac-NW so everyone hopped on the traditional chinese medicine bandwagon or (insert magical elixir style treatment here). I find that I meet people over the age of 40 or 45 and they are generally ok. It's the younger ones that seem to be the folks that have a very limited understanding of how things work, techonlogically, biologically, chemically and physically. I mentioned to this one guy from portland that the air wasn't made of 100% oxygen and he was shocked. One person who went to corvallis here and got a 4 year science degree asked in a group "What is a CPU?". I was told by *cringe* the daughter of a professor at corvalis who had completed a bachelors degree in science that "Basic science is a waste of money". I could keep typing examples, I have at least twenty more, but why repeat the pain over and over!

Generally speaking the folks that I've met here are much more immature and not intellectually curious compared to the average person that you would strike up a conversation with at a Chicago bar (Like Danny's or NEO). I think this is largely due to the lack of established scientific institutions which not only draw a higher quality of education due to community pressure but also due to ample funding.

Oregon folks in general are very defensive over anything critical regarding the state or Portland and the excuses for why there isn't enough money for schools are ample and just plain irresponsible (I'm leaving this run-on intact). The money is there but it gets spent elsewhere due to the general public's animosity to education. Everyone that I know that moved to the PAC-NW from Chicago or Champaign(!) either hates Portland or hates Seattle and desperately wishes to return if they haven't already. The average time that an educated Chicagoan can tolerate Portland is about seven months.

There are nice things about Oregon. There are nice rocks in the center and southeast portions of the state.

[scone]

Originally Posted by Isotope-C14

People do not discuss anything (intentionally) out here that may be controversial in any way shape or form (unless everyone knows they all agree in advance).

This is the heart of the matter. There is an unwritten, unspoken social code around here that amounts to 'be nice at all costs.' It essentially stifles all intellectual argument, for fear of disrupting the 'harmony' of the social scene. Or maybe the chi.

Ultimately these attitudes, along with the general disinclination to fund education, will hold Oregon back, socially and economically. But you just can't get people to see it. I'm becoming quite concerned that in the end, Oregon will become insular, backward, and unable to adapt to change.

[subsound]

It seems more that social sciences instead of physical sciences are welcomed in the area, which is part of lively debate (though not always firmly grounded). There is certainly good biological science efforts at OHSU and the VA, though due to budgetary concerns the research is withering compared to clinical work/education.