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Thanks for the thread; my family will be moving to the Portland metro area later this year or possibly early 2011. We plan on living closer to Beaverton though because it seems more nuclear family to us and we just want a quiet life. We aren't super outdoorsy but we do enjoy and annual camping excursion on the coast. We go see a movie on the weekend, like to go to a zoo a couple times a year, grocery shopping, go to a diner type place for breakfast once in a while. Do you think Beaverton will work for us?
I believe I was mainly unprepared for the zoning restrictions. I either had not heard or did not understand the impact on housing costs and options. I did not expect the resultant high density and small lots. I am sure spending time in Hollywood did not help because that area is among the most overpriced and congested. It is certainly not an area for a soon to be retired couple who do not want to spend a lot of money or deal with maintaining an old house.
I expected the hipsters but not the numbers of mentally ill and homeless wandering the streets.
I was looking forward to visiting the Japanese garden and the parks. I did not expect to find it so crowded that it was difficult to park.
I expected a larger and more interesting downtown. I saw most of the downtown areas. Maybe it was just "boringly normal." I did not see much that interested me aside from an art museum and a bookstore.
I expected a more outdoorsy, western orientation. I was thinking hunting, fishing, backpacking, mountain climbing, white water kyacks, etc. I am sure there are plenty who do those activities but I did not see that type of orientation.
Thank you for your reply.
A few thoughts. I remember urban growth boundries and high density neighborhood discussions way back when they were new things. At first I was against them, but after visiting places with unlimited sprawl, I now see them as good things. They may increase prices, but the trade-off is worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny
I expected a more outdoorsy, western orientation. I was thinking hunting, fishing, backpacking, mountain climbing, white water kyacks, etc. I am sure there are plenty who do those activities but I did not see that type of orientation.
This is interesting. I think I can use myself as an explanation of this. I grew up here when the population of Portland was quite different in size and was more working class and less eco-dreamy, I guess you could call it.
I can handle a driftboat with the best of them, always get my buck, used to fish for salmon and steelhead year-round.
In my younger days, I worked for the Forest Service during the summers building trails and helping the biologists track Elk and Deer summer to winter migratory routes in the Cascades.
I also used to be a volunteer search and rescue guy.
I am not a novice by any means when it comes to the outdoors. I never got into kayaking, but I do have friends that are fanatical rafters.
I volunteer with the Boy Scouts, and have led many a three or four day survival/backpacking trip.
Now if you met me, you wouldn't think that I do any of these things. I look like a typical middle aged pudgy old man. I don't look or dress like Grizzly Adams.
I don't go out of my way to boast on my outdoorsiness. To me it's a solitary thing or one I share with close friends (that I can stand to be alone with for two or three days).
I have made friends with people that have the same interests as me, but I met them while actually doing these things, not at some club or bar or store in Portland.
And it's not an everyday lifestyle defining thing for me either. I just go do it when the mood strikes.
Also, within the last 20 years, with Portland's population growing like it has, there seems to be quite a few people that label you an eco terrorist if you fish or hunt.
When I was a kid, I remember my dad and uncles coming back from a hunting or fishing trip and all of us kids would be fascinated with them gutting a deer, cleaning sturgeon, helping to cut up salmon for smoking etc. And this happened in neighborhoods like Sellwood and Woodstock.
These days try coming home with a buck, hanging it up in your garage with the doors open, dressing it out etc...for all the nieghbors to see.
You would probably end up being the neighborhood pariah instead of being asked for steaks and jerky!
So I've learned to keep these interests to my self.
Believe me, there are plenty of people who do the things you mentioned, just don't advertise the fact.
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 04-05-2010 at 11:57 AM..
I did not try to mention the eco issues because I just did not know where to begin. Immediately upon visiting Portland, my relatives gave a big explanation of how to throw out the trash. The used plastic water bottles were to go into one container and the caps to the water bottles in another. Maybe I just misunderstood or maybe my relatives are more fanatic than the average Portlander, but I did see plenty of other examples that seemed to be well intentioned but beyond common sense.
I also agree that in theory the urban growth boundaries sounds like a good idea. Maybe there just needs to be more compromise so that growth is contained but less restricted than now.
Concerning the outdoorsyness, I have lived in Phoenix and have visited Denver and Salt Lake City and many other western towns and cities which clearly have a outdoors orientation. Maybe if I had wandered into the REI store I would have gotten a different impression. I sort of doubt it. I do notice that there is another thread in this forum on the same subject.
I did not try to mention the eco issues because I just did not know where to begin. Immediately upon visiting Portland, my relatives gave a big explanation of how to throw out the trash. The used plastic water bottles were to go into one container and the caps to the water bottles in another. Maybe I just misunderstood or maybe my relatives are more fanatic than the average Portlander, but I did see plenty of other examples that seemed to be well intentioned but beyond common sense.
I totally understand this. We have a green container for yard debris, a blue container for metal, paper, plastics and cardboard, a yellow tub for glass, and a normal trashcan. But it is amazing how little actual trash we have left over after the sorting. The recycling is part of the weekly trash pickup.
When I visit my brother in Colorado, I ask where the cans go, where the cardboard goes, etc....I am always told "in the trash"!
I always feel guilty as heck just throwing everything away after years of recycling.
And yes, people do get fanatical about it here.
My brother does get a kick out of the "curban farming" and chicken coops that have become so trendy in Portland these days.
Being a farmer, he just can't understand the effort of (in his words) going through the trouble of having to take care of a couple of filthy dirty nasty chickens for a couple of eggs a week, when you can just go to the store and buy a dozen of 'em for a couple of bucks!
I kind of agree, and I will say the eggs taste better than store bought ones, even though by the time you've built a chicken coop, bought the chickens (and if you want more than three, you need a 30$ city permit), bought the feed, and added in the cost of your labor maintaining them, you could have bought a years worth of eggs.
In Portland, trendiness and having a groovy eco-image kick butt over practicality, but sometimes it works.
Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 04-05-2010 at 04:24 PM..
The used plastic water bottles were to go into one container and the caps to the water bottles in another.
sometimes recycling processing plants will reject your recyclables if you don't sort it properly and then it ends up in the landfill. so sad, and avoidable. I sometimes wondered if the garbage processing centers would allow people to work just picking recyclables out of the mountains of trash (good job for the homeless who are already digging recyclables out of our trashes anyway) and they could get paid by the pound or something. Anyway, if you ever go to a garbage transfer station (where the trash ends up before it gets moved to the landfill) it's really an interesting excursion; there's this giant hole in the ground (looks like an underground football stadium) and the trucks back up and dump their loads into it. You can actually watch it from the sidelines if you like and the sad part is that about 90% of what you see in there is recyclable; lots of cardboard and lumber and paper cereal boxes and such and, of course, bottles and cans. And even worse: you can bring your recyclables in to dump it for yourself if you like and the dumping cost is less than the cost to dump trash, so people will put their trash in cardboard boxes and say its all recyclable so they can get the cheaper rate. But then they dump their trash in with the piles of recyclables, so now the recyclables are ruined..Can we ever win?
In my area we sort of recycled for many years. At least the majority of the population believed that the municipalities recycled. In fact they collected paper and plastic/cans and garbage on different days and took all of it to the same landfill. Now that has ended. Unfortunately there is no market for recycled paper, or recycled cans or recycled plastics. So we now pay a hefty additional charge to have these items shipped out of State. I don't know if any of it is actually ever recycled. If so it undoubtedly costs more in diesel fuel and pollution than the efforts are worth.
In my area we sort of recycled for many years. At least the majority of the population believed that the municipalities recycled. In fact they collected paper and plastic/cans and garbage on different days and took all of it to the same landfill. Now that has ended. Unfortunately there is no market for recycled paper, or recycled cans or recycled plastics. So we now pay a hefty additional charge to have these items shipped out of State. I don't know if any of it is actually ever recycled. If so it undoubtedly costs more in diesel fuel and pollution than the efforts are worth.
I know, it's pretty sad. I was working in this neighborhood in Oakland California where Waste Management wouldn't provide recycling services. They referred me to a local private company to do it but the private company only did residential service. I was, like, "really? Businesses don't recycle in this neighborhood? really?" Unbelievable! So at least for the cardboard boxed we used to have "scavengers", which were these local guys who would come out and collect cardboard off the street and sell it. Well the scavengers quit coming and I asked one of them what was going on and they said China has enough cardboard and it's too expensive to ship it out now so they can't get enough money for it to make it worth it. I had no idea this stuff was all getting shipped over seas! What the heck?!
I'll be curious to see the Census numbers, but not much doubt population growth during the 2000's will be well above the nat. average, as it was the two decades preceding it. I'd say it's still gaining allure if anything else.
I will be interested as well. The purported numbers through 2008 indicated about 16% growth in population from 2000. Not exactly world beating but a bit above birth rate growth level. I think the idea that their is high population "growth" in Oregon is a bit overstated. I think there is a lot of churn where people more here with unrealistic expectations or without a job and are gone within 2 years. We shall see.
I had no idea this stuff was all getting shipped over seas! What the heck?!
It's not just recyclables. A large percentage of donated clothes and goods that go to organizations like Goodwill are also shipped and sold overseas. It would be interesting to know how much of our "trash" is actually exported overseas to be reused and what percentage of our overall export volume is made up of used/recycled products versus newly manufactured goods.
I know, it's pretty sad. I was working in this neighborhood in Oakland California where Waste Management wouldn't provide recycling services. They referred me to a local private company to do it but the private company only did residential service. I was, like, "really? Businesses don't recycle in this neighborhood? really?" Unbelievable! So at least for the cardboard boxed we used to have "scavengers", which were these local guys who would come out and collect cardboard off the street and sell it. Well the scavengers quit coming and I asked one of them what was going on and they said China has enough cardboard and it's too expensive to ship it out now so they can't get enough money for it to make it worth it. I had no idea this stuff was all getting shipped over seas! What the heck?!
Off topic... the last big cardboard/paper recycling plant closed a few years ago in Antioch CA... they did a heck of a business... couldn't complete with China... now the plant is gone forever...
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