COL, Employment, Education (Portland, Beaverton, Tigard: to rent, condo, mortgage)

[ZophiaMaria]

Hi Everyone, my husband is interviewing with one of the medical device companies in Portland so we may be moving from Seattle to Portland soon.

Qtns: From what I've read, Portland has high unemployment and lots of talented educated people. With all this intellectual and artistic talent is there a strong and growing entrepreneurial spirit? Before Microsoft, Seattle's main gig was Boeing and with Microsoft we've seen an explosion of start-ups.

Haven't read great things about Portland's eduction system despite spending a large amount per student compared to the rest of the US. What's up with this? Improving? Probably not at the moment with the economy.

COL - soooo - how expensive is it there compared to Seattle? Our house prices are still mostly in the nosebleed section. We live in Ballard. Is Portland any better? How much does $300K buy - something nice or dumpy? I like a low mortgage payment.

Weather - how much sunshine in the winter - better than Seattle, on par, or worse? I have some SAD so this one's important.

Friendliness - are people genuinely friendly and is it easy to get to know people? Does the Seattle N-ICE extend to Portland?

Raw foodies - are there many? Meet-ups? How's the fresh produce - am guessing great from what I've seen on our visits.

Thank you for replying.

[rhodan653]

I think you will find the overall business climate/entrepreneurial spirit to be a bit less than what you experienced in Seattle. There is not a ton of start-ups right now and Portland does not have the same nucleus of larger companies that Seattle does that spit out entrepreneurial engineer types. Yes, we have Intel and a few others but nothing like Seattle and the larger companies are somewhat in decline. Intel has reduced headcount significantly over the years. Also, Portland isn't the most business friendly state and with such a high state income tax rate, if an entrepreneur wants to start a business in a cheaper locale, he/she can. In general Portland is known more for quality of life and less for high ambition. Depending on your outlook, that could be good or bad. I worked in the greater Boston area for many years and it is nothing like that out here. In Portland, the pace is slower, people work less hours and are less focused on their careers.

I can't comment directly on Portland's quality of education. Everything I have read indicates it is average at best, but obviously each school district has differences.

For housing in the major suburbs, $330k to $350k can by you an older (say mid to late 90's vintage) 2,500 sq ft. house in say, Beaverton or Tigard and it will be in good shape with a fair amount of updating having been done. You can get to downtown from Beaverton or Tigard in about 15 to 25 minutes depending on traffic and actual location. Plus you could take the light rail (MAX) from Beaverton. If you want newer or brand new you are likely looking at $375k to $400k for that size. Not sure what your standard of "dumpy" is. You can certainly find slightly older houses for less that haven't had much updating. They won't be rat holes but will be showing their age. If you want close-in houses, they are a bit pricier for something recently updated and "nice".

My friends down here from Seattle all say the weather is much better here. Less overall rain but still a lot of clouds. I think the Willamette valley is more sheltered than Seattle and so there is less severity to the weather systems and the Coastal range seems to block a lot of heavy precipitation, just not all the clouds.

I am not familiar with Seattle's freeze out, only heard about it but people seem friendly here - we have been here 2 years and have made some good friends.

Lots of fresh produce - plenty of farmer's markets around, plus the markets that specialize in that (Whole Foods, New Seasons, etc.).

Good luck in your decision!!

[Nell Plotts]

The weather in Portland is GENERALLY sunnier but if that is important to you find that book on NW weather written by the meteorologist from U Dub. There are lots of micro-climates just like Seattle. You can manage this by finding a home with lots of natural sunlight, windows with SE and SW exposures and few tall trees.

Fresh food grown locally is available in abundance in season right from growers, particularly on Sauvie Island.

Homes in good condition under $300,000 sell quickly, depending on the neighborhood.

From what you have written I assume you have young children. You will have no problem making friends as you involve your kids in community activities. In general however Portlanders are happy to make your acquaintance but are thoughtful about friendships. It is hard to make generalizations but there are similarities to Scandinavian culture.

[ZophiaMaria]

Hi Nell,

No kids - three kittens. I don't work due to chronic fatigue syndrome - am getting well so that may change. I LOVE Welches!!! Love it, Love it, Love it - feel incredible there.

Hubby's moving for me. He has a job that's secure here and that he likes ~ does realtime embedded software and has 21 years of experience. His boss is a good friend. He's always been fortunate with employment - good work karma.

We're attracted to Portland's mass transit, WA Park and Forest Park, access to the coast, Mt. Hood and ease of biking.

Debating between in-city living (possibly a condo) and being more rural. Plan to rent for a while before deciding where to put down roots. My ideal is to have a place in Portland and a place in Welches. There are finances to consider which is why I am wondering about finding a decent place at a lower cost.

THANKS!!!!

[karlsch]

Here is a recent Oregonian article about the future for start ups in Oregon:

For a couple of hours, the 75 or so investors, entrepreneurs and elected officials gathered at Portland's World Trade Center traded earnest thoughts about how to encourage investments in promising young companies in Oregon. Then the elephant made itself known.

Eric Pozzo, who manages the Oregon Angel Fund, which screens and invests in startup companies, said potential investors have to ask themselves now, "Why would I choose Oregon with our tax structure?"

The whole article:
Oregon's entrepreneurial crisis | OregonLive.com

[ZophiaMaria]

That's not good news. Seems with OR's high unemployment the state would be doing all it could to attract business investors not chase them away. Guess they took a game card from the Boeing machinists who decided to strike when the 787 was having major problems and the economy was tanking. SC won. Am sure there were other issues involved on both sides. Given a connected world, companies will take their jobs where conditions are favorable. Any idea if OR will change it's attitude to become business friendly?

[philwithbeard]

Originally Posted by ZophiaMaria

..... Given a connected world, companies will take their jobs where conditions are favorable. Any idea if OR will change it's attitude to become business friendly?

The trick is to define "business friendly"

Portland is rumored to be more liberal or aggressively and emphatically more anti-conservative. This is based on the Voting record as reported in local newspapers on issues like Voting for Obama as President, to the Tax measures 66 and 67. Here is a link to one of them: (there is two very, very long threads in the Oregon forum //www.city-data.com/forum/orego...ve-oregon.html)

Portland, like All of the PNW is subject to SAD. Our weather is almost identical to Seattle, just one or two degrees of temperature differences. Maybe Portland has on average one extra day of partly cloudy days in Feb or March, that is about it.

There are a lot fewer Type-A business type persons in all of Oregon compared to Washington State. That is based on a random search of Internet job boards for MBA jobs with experience with ERP, or MRP database backgrounds required for job opening. I cannot even find a posting looking for someone experienced in using Tiny-ERP on a Progress Database. (free s/w on Linux.) (yes a few techie jobs, but not for a MBA level user of such.)

Portland wages are lower, because so many on this board report on the rumor "Part of your paycheck is the laid back environment and leisure time after-work activities."

My personal opinion is that you can start a conversation with just about anybody on the street and just about anytime in Portland. However, it seems that as a stranger talking to another stranger, you have an invisible 90 second clock on your conversation. After that, further discussion is unwelcomed.

I think you will find Portland is less car commuting friendly than Seattle. Way more emphasis on Mass Transit, like it or not.

I hope the job interview goes very good, and is successful.

Phil

[rhodan653]

Originally Posted by ZophiaMaria

Any idea if OR will change it's attitude to become business friendly?

There have been numerous discussions back and forth in these forums regarding the tax policies of the state and its impact on business.

The bottom line is that the majority of folks in Oregon do not care to improve the unemployment situation by making the state more business friendly. People accept it the way it is and I think they subconsciously think of the high unemployment rate as a natural barrier to keep too many people from moving here and causing "over-crowding". It is one reason why Oregon's population has really only grown about 12% in the last 8 or 9 years in spite of it being a "destination" state. A lot of people move here, can't find or keep a job long-term and move away.

It would take something drastic like a 20% unemployment rate and forced taxes on the "non-rich" for anything to change. As long as there are wealthier people and businesses left in the state to pay all the taxes then nothing will change.

As a potential new resident, if you have a viewpoint towards business that is anything other than that of the extreme left you will need to adjust your mindset in Portland and just accept it the way it is. Otherwise you will drive yourself mad (I have just recently crawled back from the brink ). As long as you focus on the positive aspects of Oregon, like all of the great outdoor activities, mountains, ocean, summer festivals, etc. you will do just fine.

[Nell Plotts]

So, what is the explanation for Vancouver, WA lack of employment vs Portland's? If WA tax structure was more business friendly than OR wouldn't employers be moving from Portland metro to Vancouver?

[ZophiaMaria]

Hi Phil,

My husband's father is a city planner and my hubby has some of his dad in him - loves Portland's mass transit. I love the Japanese Garden, Mt. Hood, the Columbia Gorge waterfalls and the coast. My laid back than Seattle is fine with us.

Wishing for better weather. I've heard it rains more, is warmer in the summer and colder in the winter. I've seen conflicting information on the research I've done. Summers are definitely warmer there. Seattle summers are iffy - may be cool and rainy. I do believe Portland gets a full on summer.

There are airplanes going south and eastern OR when the clouds get to me. Spent a night in Sisters last year when I was checking OR out more thoroughly. Really liked it. I like the idea of running out to the coast on a regular basis in the summer and all the wonderful fresh produce OR growers provide.

Husband will be going from aerospace to bio med which pays higher. We are expecting a pay raise or will be thinking long and hard before accepting offer. He is a senior software engineer with a secure job he likes, so jumping companies has to come with some goodies; poor economy or not.

How long have you lived in Portland and what do you like about it?