What's with the begging kids downtown? (Portland, Ashland: fit in, salary, taxes)

[CTR36]

I think the cops should enforce them to get out of the area. Isn't there a no loitering law? I mean in Dallas they passed an ordinance for panhandling. And if you are caught doing that you are fined and ultimately arrested. It has pared down the problem significantly. I mean if you grow tolerant of this type of attitude then it will become more the norm. As a tourist it really turned me off to ever visiting this area again. At first I thought about bringing my family up here to visit. Not anymore.

[sofia76]

Originally Posted by Wicked Felina

There are some very violent and organized "street families." Wasn't it about four or five years ago when one such group tortured and murdered a mentally disabled woman? These are not saints we're talking about (the worst of the bunch that is).

Yes, you are talking about Jessica Kate Williams, and I had forgotten about her, so I stand corrected. Although one thing to keep in mind - not that this makes it any better - is that she herself was a member of the street family. She was not a tourist or some random person on the street. This doesn't mean she deserved to die; she was a victim and no one deserves to die this way. However, I am not afraid to walk on the Esplanade nor am I afraid of the street kids I see hanging out in Pioneer Square because of her death.

All I ask is that people maintain some perspective. There were 21 murders in Portland in 2009. Most of the perpetrators were related to their victims, and most (if not all) of them lived in houses.

[philwithbeard]

Originally Posted by burnhams

The street kids downtown is a growing problem, the Police really need to remove the homeless and street kids. ....

The Police should not, and as far as I know do not, have the authority to remove someone who is not breaking any law. What law are these homeless people violating? Not being "attractive to tourist?" Sorry, but in my book, even though I don't like the massive homeless numbers, and I wish some social do-gooders would set up free baths and showers (With effectively strong soap and scrub brushes) I don't want the Police in Portland to arrest and process through the county judicial system with county jail time the 100's of homeless in Portland. Who are just using the Public sidewalks. Public sidewalks are for everyone, not just the middle class from the 'burbs. Added taxes for county jail would radically increase Sheriff's budget.

Originally Posted by CTR36

I think the cops should enforce them to get out of the area. Isn't there a no loitering law? I mean in Dallas they passed an ordinance for panhandling. And if you are caught doing that you are fined and ultimately arrested. It has pared down the problem significantly. I mean if you grow tolerant of this type of attitude then it will become more the norm. As a tourist it really turned me off to ever visiting this area again. At first I thought about bringing my family up here to visit. Not anymore.

Portland is NOT Texas. Defiantly not Dallas.
The City of Portland is not for everyone. If just the homeless in downtown is cause enough for you to decide against moving to Portland, That is a good thing! Cause, the homeless problem is only a minor Portland phenomenon out of many that you most likely would find objectionable, very objectionable.

I will defer to anyone else who moved to Portland from Dallas or Houston but. IMHO,the culture of the city of Portland would not be comfortable to someone moving here from most of Texas. Other parts of Oregon, maybe more welcoming, but not most of the City of Portland.

Anyone, fell fee to argue my opinion about Texas and the City of Portland. I confess, I have not meet anyone who lives in the City of Portland from Texas. I don't even recall seeing Texas license plates in Portland, except maybe in the 'burbs.

Phil

[TeaAndOranges]

Originally Posted by CTR36

Soooo I am here in Porltand on business and I am shocked at all the begging kids on the street on 6th and Morrison specifically. Is the job market THAT bad here that these kids have to beg? Where are their parents? Are these kids homeless and drug addicts? Why are they allowed to loiter around here? I come from the Dallas area and beggars are not allowed to be loitering around establishments. I do see the Portland PD patrolling the area but I frankly feel very uncomfortable walking around trying to sight see. At one point I thought about moving here for a job. Thank goodness I didn't. Not to offend anyone but it (downtown) looks so pretty except for the beggars And no, I have not led a sheltered life, but for goodness sakes the beggars I'm used to are some type of war vets, etc.

What gives?

Ah, I am glad to see you don't live here! Your questions regarding the kids are all rather idiotic. Obviously each kid has a story that is unique. No, they are not all drug addicts, but some are. Their parents? Who knows where their parents may be? I imagine some of them have parents living in the suburbs, and possibly others come from broken homes with abusive parents. Who knows? You think they all share the same damn story?

I live downtown (near PGE park), and work downtown (near PSU campus), and I am not bothered by these people, ever. My wife takes our 15 month old son out for walks, and she is not bothered by these people. They are not bothersome. If you do not want to give them money, just say "sorry, broke" and keep walking. Stop freaking out because there are people that exist out there who do not believe in the lifestyle that you believe in. Not everyone has to follow the ridiculous social norms set forth: birth, education, more education, work, retire, die. It is perfectly fine if these people choose to do something else with their time than sit in a crappy office all day long. In fact, as I sit here in this office, they are out enjoying the beautiful sunny day today. How I envy them.

Not everyone in the world has to care about what clothes they are wearing, their furniture, car and all the other meaningless crap that we go to work and waste our lives just to have. Sorry, not everyone shares your ideals. You going to work is your way of surviving, and panhandling is their way of doing so.

So yeah, do Portland a favor and go back to Dallas. I'm sure Texas would love to have you back.

Also, most of the crime committed in Portland is not done by the street kids. A few crimes that do happen are meaningless. A murder happened a few years ago, big deal. Look at Dallas, it has a lot more murders per capita than Portland does. There are a lot of cities with less of a homeless presence that are far more dangerous than Portland.

Personally, I'm just glad that most the people in here ranting on about the homeless don't live down here. I bet most of you live out in Beaverton, or some other crappy suburb in the area. I just ask, if you come downtown, please learn how to drive, because you suburbanites are the most annoying people on the road, with no idea how to get around.

[CTR36]

Update: Today I actually DID stop and talk to three people who were out begging. They were in their early to mid 20s and had a dog that looked to be pure bred and a sign that read "Need to get DRUNK". I stopped to talk to them on my way to the conference along with some of my colleagues. I asked if they had jobs and if not why not? The kid said "It's easier to beg, plus we don't have to pay taxes" ahhh....and people say the immigrants are taking the jobs Americans could have. Ya right! Yeah, Teandoranges, I am going back to TEXAS, this place sucks!! Kids (if you can call them that) should NOT be out begging. They are able bodied people and should be working. Apparently the locals are just used to this type of lifestyle and don't even notice anymore. How very sad to have NO expectation of young people.

[Bobomo]

Originally Posted by TeaAndOranges

Stop freaking out because there are people that exist out there who do not believe in the lifestyle that you believe in. Not everyone has to follow the ridiculous social norms set forth: birth, education, more education, work, retire, die. It is perfectly fine if these people choose to do something else with their time than sit in a crappy office all day long. In fact, as I sit here in this office, they are out enjoying the beautiful sunny day today. How I envy them.

LOL @ you calling someone else "idiotic" and then saying this.

[backdrifter]

Originally Posted by CTR36

Update: Today I actually DID stop and talk to three people who were out begging. They were in their early to mid 20s and had a dog that looked to be pure bred and a sign that read "Need to get DRUNK". I stopped to talk to them on my way to the conference along with some of my colleagues. I asked if they had jobs and if not why not? The kid said "It's easier to beg, plus we don't have to pay taxes" ahhh....and people say the immigrants are taking the jobs Americans could have. Ya right! Yeah, Teandoranges, I am going back to TEXAS, this place sucks!! Kids (if you can call them that) should NOT be out begging. They are able bodied people and should be working. Apparently the locals are just used to this type of lifestyle and don't even notice anymore. How very sad to have NO expectation of young people.

We're tolerant of it because what the hell else are we supposed to do? There really isn't that much we can do but ignore them... And a lot of them aren't even from Portland.

It's not really much of a reflection on us locals in all honesty.

[aroseinrain]

Why do the ducks gather at the lake? Because people keep throwing crumbs to them. Don't complain about the ducks, complain about the people throwing crumbs.

[scottinpdx]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

The Police should not, and as far as I know do not, have the authority to remove someone who is not breaking any law. What law are these homeless people violating? Not being "attractive to tourist?" Sorry, but in my book, even though I don't like the massive homeless numbers, and I wish some social do-gooders would set up free baths and showers (With effectively strong soap and scrub brushes) I don't want the Police in Portland to arrest and process through the county judicial system with county jail time the 100's of homeless in Portland. Who are just using the Public sidewalks. Public sidewalks are for everyone, not just the middle class from the 'burbs. Added taxes for county jail would radically increase Sheriff's budget.
Phil

Most may not be breaking any laws but is a public nuisance to be downtown and have to deal with them sleeping on the sidewalks, sitting in the middle of the sidewaks begging for money. Sidewalks are for everyone, BUT there is a point to what you should be able to do.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by aroseinrain

Why do the ducks gather at the lake? Because people keep throwing crumbs to them. Don't complain about the ducks, complain about the people throwing crumbs.

Very fitting. And bear in mind that when the ducks are flying over they decide where to land and to stay based on resources. I have even heard that some birds will refuse to fly south if they get enough food. So, behavior that is rewarded is learned and repeated. Like for those nonmigrating birds, ill-placed sympathy is more destructive than helpful.

By the way, I started a thread over on the Pittsburgh forum about this. Pittsburgh and Portland have many parallels. Midsized river cities with nice universities. One a modern mecca the other a former industrial city undergoing a renaissance of sorts. Both rainy places with lovely surroundings.

Pittsburgh has plenty of homeless, but apparently they do not have nearly aas many of these young parasites there. I am wondering if it because of the colder winters. Or whether the beggar/poseurs need to be in the hip West Coast cities. I will vote for the latter. And I will say, our middle class guilt, or cowardice, is what they are preying on. And feeding them, when they really should be learning to fend for themselves a that age, is false piety.