Here we go again with the Pats cheating "stuff" - Ravens coach illegal formation accusation

[mainebrokerman]

Originally Posted by metalmancpa

I'll chime in on this as a Patriots fan.

Forget stats for a moment - I personally hate them anyways because there is so much more to judging a player. Two trick plays as you call them were huge, both executed to perfection.

Vereen properly reported himself ineligible. Four players with the proper #'s were on the interior line which was legal. Vereen was properly announced. Brady's perfect timing to hit the line and call for the ball was the end of the execution, the final thing that needed to happen for it all to work.

Edelman would never have made that perfect throw if Brady hadn't first perfectly delievered the ball to him, which he did.

Brady won that game. The Patriots did not call a running play after the early part of the 2nd quarter, so the rest of the game rode on Brady's arm. He engineered not one, but two 14-point deficit comebacks. He was the quarterback, and he marched them into the end zone five times in the game.

The trick plays were only two plays in a 60-minute game that the Patriots and Brady and Belichick planned for and executed. They won on the big stage. So I absolutely will sit here with a straight face and say the Patriots were the better team. The Ravens were tough and gritty and played well, but they didn't execute enough plays to win, so in essence the Patriots were the better team.

It was a close game that could of gone either way. Belichick, Brady & Company were the better team that day on the field and on the scoreboard, period.

i agree with this,,,,,

officiating seem to all go the ravens way too,,

the holding/p.i. call on revis that was just dumb.....

a defender had both arms around gronk and never got the flag

a fumble and patriot recovery on the 2 yard line, gets called back

brady did carry the team,,,the defense couldn't hold the ravens back,,, so the task of the whole game was on brady to score

ravens played very well, they always play the pats tough like the jets,

patriots didn't cheat at all....the nfl came out and said that..
part of every teams offense is deception,,,,,to fool the defense,,
play action pass,,,fake running the ball, then pass it

the fake punts, or extra points

the qb's that run,,,fake a hand off, fake a throw/pass, then run,,,,,all to deceive the defense or catch them offguard

if another team did this like the patriots did, theyd be called brilliant,,,
but patriots seem to be the most hated tem there is.... i guess its jealousy,,theyve won more playoff games than any other team

[7express]

Originally Posted by Floorist

They should have called both.

They probably should have. But at least the referee was consistant on those calls. In both of those cases, we both thought it was consistently bad, but at least he was consistent on those 2 plays, and in that case I can't blame the zebra.

[7express]

Also, what nobodies failing to mention is the 2 fumbles the Ravens should have recovered in the first half. The first one on the kickoff would've given the Ravens the ball at about the 25 yard line, and the way Tucker kicks the ball, that's almost a guaranteed 3 points at worst. If they have to settle for the FG there and the rest of the game plays out as it does, the Ravens final drive (not counting the last second hail mary), is completely different because they are only down 1 instead of 4 and can play for the game-winning field goal instead of having to score the touchdown.
The second fumble was closer to midfield so it wasn't going to be automatic points just yet but I counted 3 or 4 Ravens defenders by Amendola (or was it Edelman who had that fumble??) but somehow the ball carrier was able to recover his own fumble. The Patriots would score a touchdown on that drive to get to 14-7. If one of those 3 defenders comes away with the fumble and everything again plays out as it does, the Ravens final drive (once again not counting the last second hail mary) plays out completely different because the Ravens don't even need to hit a field goal as they'd have the lead and the ball with under 5 minutes to go so Harbaugh/Kubiak would likely be more conservative by trying to gain 10 yards in 3 downs and milk the clock as opposed to 80 yards and needing a touchdown.

[Miker2069]

Originally Posted by spm62

I agree Miker. The two trick plays were the difference in the game. Flacco threw 2 picks and Brady one bad pick. The last pick by Flacco probably could have been avoided if Torrey Smith made a play on the ball. He just stopped and didn't fight all the way for the ball.

I don't think anything was illegal about the trick play. Belicheck copied the play from his friend Nick Saban. But I do think the spirit of the law was broken. There is a reason certain players have to wear certain numbers and let the refs know if they are eligible or ineligible. To walk up to the line and hike the ball quickly after a receiver declares himself ineligible, does create a clear advantage to the offense. But there is nothing illegal about according to the letter of the law. Belicheck didn't invent the play, Saban ran it earlier this year.

But for all of the Patriots fans talking about how great Brady played and how the Patriots are better than the Ravens, it took trick plays to beat them. Those trick plays had nothing to do with Brady. He played good but he is lucky those plays worked. Belicheck had to be scared to death of losing and saw how the great Patriots defense was getting beat up, so he had to pull out everything he had to try and score. That is to his credit. But he knew, physically speaking, who was the better team on the field. He had to try something. The two trick plays made the difference. Ravens still had a chance to win it with Brady on the sideline. They were marching the ball down the field until Flacco tried to score instead of continuing to march down the field. Again, I credit the Patriots, they won. But don't sit there with a straight face after the fact and pretend like the Patriots were the much better team. All of you guys really thought you were going to lose. Even when Flacco was marching them down the field at the end. A close game that could have gone either way.

I agree with everything you said with exception of the "spirit of the law". I heard an analyst on the NFL radio channel on Sirius say that basically every play in the NFL is deceptive. That's the nature of the game. The play action pass, the statue of liberty play, fake punts, etc. etc. All deception and slight of hand. What matters is did they operate within the framework constructed by the rules - and the Pats did. This just happens to be a trick play that hasn't really be seen before (although you pointed out that Saban's done it at the college level).

This is what makes the game so fun to watch, you really just don't know what can happen until you play it.

[Unsettomati]

Originally Posted by Floorist

Always wondered why "spiking the ball" isn't intentional grounding.

Because intentional grounding has a specific definition. And spiking the ball doesn't meet that definition.

Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

NFL Rules Digest: Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass

It makes perfect sense to prohibit just throwing the ball away to avoid a sack. Loss of a down (ie, incomplete pass) to avoid a sack is a great trade-off for an offense - if it was allowed, the sack as an occurrence would almost disappear.

On the other hand, spiking the ball requires the offense to burn 12-15 seconds of clock time and the loss of a down, just to stop the clock from ticking away any further. That's not a great trade-off, and so is used only in very narrow situations. Thus, there is no reason for the NFL to disallow it.

And that's why spiking the ball is not intentional grounding.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by metalmancpa

It was a close game that could of gone either way. Belichick, Brady & Company were the better team that day on the field and on the scoreboard, period.

See, this is just someone being a homer. First you say, it was a close game,that could have gone either way. Then you turn around and say the Patriots were the best team on the field, PERIOD. lol uh, no the Patriots were not the best team on the field PERIOD. They were getting beat for 3 1/2 quarters. That means that for the majority of the game, they were getting beat. The trick plays made the difference. Most games are close and swing on a couple of plays.

But you are making my point about Patriot fans acting like the game was never in doubt and they had the much better team. You know full well, you thought the Patriots were going to lose, until the end of the game. They needed the trick plays to overcome the Ravens. Which I say again, is a credit to them. They did what they had to do to win. I have no problem with that. The problem I have is with fans who, after the fact
Breathe a sigh of relief, then say...."we had the game all the way" lol

[metalmancpa]

Originally Posted by spm62

See, this is just someone being a homer. First you say, it was a close game,that could have gone either way. Then you turn around and say the Patriots were the best team on the field, PERIOD. lol uh, no the Patriots were not the best team on the field PERIOD. They were getting beat for 3 1/2 quarters. That means that for the majority of the game, they were getting beat. The trick plays made the difference. Most games are close and swing on a couple of plays.

But you are making my point about Patriot fans acting like the game was never in doubt and they had the much better team. You know full well, you thought the Patriots were going to lose, until the end of the game. They needed the trick plays to overcome the Ravens. Which I say again, is a credit to them. They did what they had to do to win. I have no problem with that. The problem I have is with fans who, after the fact
Breathe a sigh of relief, then say...."we had the game all the way" lol

The game was in doubt. Of course it was.

If you want to hang your hat on luck and trickery as being some sort of final reasoning for victory, then you are not a football fan. Coaching, planning, execution - all geared towards the current opponent - offsetting any match-up advantages with an advantage of your own.

In the world of football, the Ravens lost to a team that executed the game better than they did, PERIOD.

I'll say it again. Twice as a fan I've watched the Giants do thew same thing to the Patriots in the Superbowl - Be the better team. When you lose a game, it's a culmination of every play in 60 minutes. To not give Brady his due coming back twice from 14 points down - You're the poor sport homer, not I. I tipped my hat to the Giants twice for winning. Mad, but understanding. Patriots haters are blind with hatred making dumb excuses for losing.

I never said anyone had the game all the way. All that matters is the score when the gun sounds. Ravens lost. Patriots won. Patriots were better, PERIOD.

Homer my a$$.

[DOUBLE H]

Originally Posted by metalmancpa

The game was in doubt. Of course it was.



I'll say it again.

Be the better team. When you lose a game, it's a culmination of every play in 60 minutes.

Yes.

And on that note this thread is closed.