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again brady says he prefers lower inflation, rogers prefers higher inflation. either way there is NO way to prove that there is an advantage either way.
so again prove there is an advantage with real scientific evidence, not anecdotal evidence, or suggestions by QBs or any other player unless there is scientific evidence to back them up.
If there were scientific evidence, who would you believe? I guess you would have to believe the professionals. Guess what? The QBs in the NFL ARE the pros here and they say they have a preference. Why do you suppose they might have a preference? Do you think that it might allow them to do something better? OMG! Now comes my favorite line from the Shawshank Redemption. rbohm, "How could you be so obtuse?"
After this, since I know you will never accept the NFL QBs as the "experts" in this, or accept the facts that use logic to come to a logical conclusion, I am putting you on my ignore list. All you can seem to achieve is to waste people's time, trying to convince you of simple facts. Enjoy the blizzard.
Last edited by Cruzincat; 01-26-2015 at 06:35 AM..
most QBs have a preference based on how the ball feels in their hand. its the same with pitchers and baseballs, each one has a different feel. have you ever watched a baseball game and noticed a pitcher getting an umpire to toss a ball from the game? he didnt like the feel of the ball. i know i have been there and done that very thing.
bowlers also select balls based on the feel of the ball. same with golfers, basketball players, even soccer players have a preference for a certain feel for a ball. it doesnt give any competitive advantage though, its just a preference. it is in fact all psychological.
Yeah, and I suppose Tiger Woods just buys his clubs at Dick's because the equipment doesn't make any difference. Let's face it, you are fitting your logic, or lack thereof, to your desire to see your team get by their possible cheating. You do not have a clue about what the needs are for a professional in any sport or business or engineering career, and even if you did, right now you are reluctant to admit it, because it does not fit your narrative defending the Pats.
most QBs have a preference based on how the ball feels in their hand. its the same with pitchers and baseballs, each one has a different feel. have you ever watched a baseball game and noticed a pitcher getting an umpire to toss a ball from the game? he didnt like the feel of the ball. i know i have been there and done that very thing.
Which MLB team did you pitch for? Or were you in the stands? Most of the time the pitchers want the ball replaced because it has a visible smudge on it after it hits the ground, because, wait for it...
... He doesn't want the (professional)batter to gain the advantage of being able to see the spin on the ball(because of the smudge)!
If there were scientific evidence, who would you believe? I guess you would have to believe the professionals. Guess what? The QBs in the NFL ARE the pros here and they say they have a preference. Why do you suppose they might have a preference? Do you think that it might allow them to do something better? OMG! Now comes my favorite line from the Shawshank Redemption. rbohm, "How could you be so obtuse?"
After this, since I know you will never accept the NFL QBs as the "experts" in this, or accept the facts that use logic to come to a logical conclusion, I am putting you on my ignore list. All you can seem to achieve is to waste people's time, trying to convince you of simple facts. Enjoy the blizzard.
all i said is that NFL QBs have a preference. that preference has NEVER been subjected to scientific scrutiny, and thus is not verifiable. tom brady is an expert at the QB position, does that somehow make him a scientist? no it doesnt. does he understand the science behind throwing a football? yes he does, but that is a small fraction of what real science is about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat
Yeah, and I suppose Tiger Woods just buys his clubs at Dick's because the equipment doesn't make any difference. Let's face it, you are fitting your logic, or lack thereof, to your desire to see your team get by their possible cheating. You do not have a clue about what the needs are for a professional in any sport or business or engineering career, and even if you did, right now you are reluctant to admit it, because it does not fit your narrative defending the Pats.
tiger woods has his club custom made to fit him, and in the case of golf clubs, there is a scientifically verifiable different in club design. you can take say a 3 wood from every manufacturer, and using a robotic machine that is designed to swing a club in a proper arc, and do it consistently, you can find what club performs the best consistently. you cannot do that with a football at this time. perhaps someone can create a machine that will throw a football in a proper manner, using a constant grip, so that it could perhaps one day prove that certain inflation pressures do have a performance advantage, but until that day comes, you cannot prove that under inflated footballs derive an advantage, except a psychological one.
as for me supporting the patriots, sorry but you have another thing coming on that one. true i am hoping the patriots win the super bowl this year, but only because i dislike the seahawks more than i dislike the patriots. i would be ecstatic if this year BOTH teams could lose the super bowl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat
Which MLB team did you pitch for? Or were you in the stands? Most of the time the pitchers want the ball replaced because it has a visible smudge on it after it hits the ground, because, wait for it...
... He doesn't want the (professional)batter to gain the advantage of being able to see the spin on the ball(because of the smudge)!
How old are you anyway?
one does not have to be a major league pitcher to understand how the ball feels in the hand. i never went higher than organized amateur levels. but i learned from people that did play professionally, and taught the pros.
one of the things i learned is how to use those visible smudges, and damage on a ball to gain an advantage when pitching. and by the way, the reason i never got out of the amateur ranks is due to a shoulder injury i sustained playing another sport, so i went with my other sport that i love, auto racing.
all i said is that NFL QBs have a preference. that preference has NEVER been subjected to scientific scrutiny, and thus is not verifiable. tom brady is an expert at the QB position, does that somehow make him a scientist? no it doesnt. does he understand the science behind throwing a football? yes he does, but that is a small fraction of what real science is about.
It hasn't been subjected to scientific scrutiny because there would be no benefit to do so. All that is needed to know is that the QB knows when he can grip the ball better and that varies from QB to QB. If a QB has better results with a ball at 12.5 psi than he does at 13.5 psi, then he will have the ball set low. It does not necessarily have to be under game conditions for him to make the determination, therefore he could even deflate the ball even more to test it out. And they can do that by throwing balls at a target. Scientific enough on an individual basis.
Quote:
one does not have to be a major league pitcher to understand how the ball feels in the hand. i never went higher than organized amateur levels. but i learned from people that did play professionally, and taught the pros.
one of the things i learned is how to use those visible smudges, and damage on a ball to gain an advantage when pitching. and by the way, the reason i never got out of the amateur ranks is due to a shoulder injury i sustained playing another sport, so i went with my other sport that i love, auto racing.
How does a pitcher take advantage of visible smudges? Anything more visible, out of the ordinary will benefit the hitter. I can understand a damaged(scraped or scuffed) giving the pitcher an edge, which I believe, if done intentionally by a pitcher in MLB is against the rules.
most QBs have a preference based on how the ball feels in their hand. its the same with pitchers and baseballs, each one has a different feel. have you ever watched a baseball game and noticed a pitcher getting an umpire to toss a ball from the game? he didnt like the feel of the ball. i know i have been there and done that very thing.
bowlers also select balls based on the feel of the ball. same with golfers, basketball players, even soccer players have a preference for a certain feel for a ball. it doesnt give any competitive advantage though, its just a preference. it is in fact all psychological.
Most serious bowlers have their own bowling balls. Professional bowlers have many. Being only a league bowler, I only have two.
Looks like you didn't get put on ignore like stated, didja?
It hasn't been subjected to scientific scrutiny because there would be no benefit to do so. All that is needed to know is that the QB knows when he can grip the ball better and that varies from QB to QB. If a QB has better results with a ball at 12.5 psi than he does at 13.5 psi, then he will have the ball set low. It does not necessarily have to be under game conditions for him to make the determination, therefore he could even deflate the ball even more to test it out. And they can do that by throwing balls at a target. Scientific enough on an individual basis.
then until sich time as it is subjected to scientific scrutiny, its all psychological, and nothing more.
Quote:
How does a pitcher take advantage of visible smudges? Anything more visible, out of the ordinary will benefit the hitter. I can understand a damaged(scraped or scuffed) giving the pitcher an edge, which I believe, if done intentionally by a pitcher in MLB is against the rules.
that depends, if the scuff makes the ball a little slicker, then using that makes the ball spin less as it leaves the pitchers hand, and when it does, it moves differently through the air. if the scuff makes the ball less slick, then again it changes how the pitcher grips the ball, and again it changes the spin as it leaves the pitchers hand, and it also changes how the ball moves through the air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv
Most serious bowlers have their own bowling balls. Professional bowlers have many. Being only a league bowler, I only have two.
that is quite true. even in the amateur ranks, some players like their own equipment. batters will sometimes have their own personal bats that they like, and in the pros, they often have a rack of them that only they use.
Quote:
Looks like you didn't get put on ignore like stated, didja?
i didnt know anyone threatened to put me on ignore. oh well.
then until sich time as it is subjected to scientific scrutiny, its all psychological, and nothing more. Just one more attempt. Who What or Where would someone go to, to get this done? A scientific method can be accomplished by one person using only their abilities and their personal equipment. Disagree all you want but that is true.
that depends, if the scuff makes the ball a little slicker, then using that makes the ball spin less as it leaves the pitchers hand, and when it does, it moves differently through the air. if the scuff makes the ball less slick, then again it changes how the pitcher grips the ball, and again it changes the spin as it leaves the pitchers hand, and it also changes how the ball moves through the air.
I was talking smudges and you answered with scuffs. Big difference. Still waiting...
that is quite true. even in the amateur ranks, some players like their own equipment. batters will sometimes have their own personal bats that they like, and in the pros, they often have a rack of them that only they use.
So it is psychological when it suits your narrative, but when it has to do with Tiger Woods' clubs it is something else?
i didnt know anyone threatened to put me on ignore. oh well.
I tried but it didn't take. Finally got it working but I clicked on 'View Post" this time. Maybe you should seek out a scientific analysis of your arguments.
I tried but it didn't take. Finally got it working but I clicked on 'View Post" this time. Maybe you should seek out a scientific analysis of your arguments.
Quote:
Just one more attempt. Who What or Where would someone go to, to get this done? A scientific method can be accomplished by one person using only their abilities and their personal equipment. Disagree all you want but that is true.
start with the ball manufacturers, perhaps they have the needed equipment. but an individualm even if they are doing the exact same thing over and over again, is not a proper scientific measurement, because all you need to do is take another individual and get completely different results.
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I was talking smudges and you answered with scuffs. Big difference. Still waiting...
doesnt change anything. even a smudge can make the ball slicker and stickier, and a pitcher can use that to change the rotation of the ball.
Quote:
So it is psychological when it suits your narrative, but when it has to do with Tiger Woods' clubs it is something else?
ok one more time, with golf clubs, different designs can be scientifically verified because the golf club manufacturers have machines that are very consistent in how they swing the club. thus with the exact same motion every time, different clubs can be put against each other to find which design works best. thus club design can be verified.
nice try but you have constantly failed in understanding the psychology of sports, and the science behind sports. as i said before, many times, brady prefers a softer ball, where as rogers prefers a harder ball. does that give either one a competitive advantage? only in their minds at this point because it is not scientifically verifiable that a soft ball or a hard one is any kind of actual advantage.
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