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So the 2013 Seattle Seahawks team wasn't an all-time defense, even though it's been mentioned on Top 10 lists? Do we really have to go and list accomplishments?
And you do realize that they are closing in on five straight seasons of fewest points allowed? That alone is a historic run of dominance unmatched by anybody besides the '50s Browns....might wanna rethink your assessment...
well i suppose if your all time list includes a top 10... perhaps.. when i first read the statement i immediately thought of a half dozen teams that I thought were way better... but that could simply be ERA bias.. I still don't think of the Seahawks defense of recent seasons as an all time great defense but as time goes by and defenses continue to be hogtied by new rules that favor the offense... perhaps i will.
Currently my list (just off the top of my head) would be something like this:
70s Steelers (best defense i ever saw, hands down... check out the run they had back in '76... redefined the word dominance). 4 Titles in 6 years, half the players on defense are in the HOF... kinda speaks for itself.
80s Bears (the '85 Bears defense was the first i saw scare the opposing team, half of their wins were won before the game started.... probably the single best season of any team i ever saw and 90% of it was their defense..)
In mind there is a fairly big drop off once you get past these top 2..
Certainly there is an ERA bias here.. back when defenses where actually allowed to play defense and hit other players.. Who knows, in time i might look back at the current Seahawks defense and think, wow.. they were great but today i simply think of them as a really good defense but not dominant and not All Time..
When it takes your team (team, not fans) 5 minutes after winning the super bowl to go on about how you're the greatest defense of all time, it's hard to take them seriously as even a top 5, sorry. This includes Seattle 2013 and Denver 2015. Maybe 10 years from now we can look back and make a more objective call on this, like mco said.
2 all time great defenses that I have seen are the 70's Steelers (I think there were 5 HOF players on the defensive side of the ball) and the 85 Bears defense....The early 90s Eagles were a really good group. I have to admit, I love watching a defense control a game. I get tired of football being turned into an Xbox game where teams just march up and down the field
Well I wasn't old enough to watch in the 80s, but I'm going to of course go with the 2000 Ravens. I think that time was around the turning point to an offense-happy league. Warner and the Rams were great, but we didn't have Brady or Manning yet (at least they weren't in their prime yet). For me it's how bad Baltimore's offense was. Their defense (and sometimes special teams) had to actually score touchdowns for them to win. They actually went 5 straight games without a touchdown and still went 2-3 in those games (and 12-4 on the season). That, to me, is incredible. As far as I know, the 85 Bears had a great offense as well, so that sort of situation didn't come up. The Ravens also pitched 4 shutouts, which is really good. The '85 Bears (and '06 Ravens) pitched 2 shutouts (actually 4 if you include the playoffs). The Ravens gave up 16 total points in 3 AFC playoff games, and their defense shut out the Giants in the SB (lone TD was a kickoff return).
Another defense with great potential was '06 Ravens. They kept SB-winning Manning out of the endzone in the playoffs, but their offense was pathetic and lost 15-6, so that defense doesn't get much respect in the history books.
The '85 Bears offense was not great.. not that i recall. They had Walter Payton, nearing the end of his career.. Willie Gault.. Jim McMahon... i suppose they were decent.. but certainly not what i would call great.. Best i can recall, their defense set up score after score for their offense.. I suppose the '85 Bears offense was not as bad as the '00 Ravens offense but they were probably in line with the '15 Broncos offense... more of a running team vs a passing team.
2 all time great defenses that I have seen are the 70's Steelers (I think there were 5 HOF players on the defensive side of the ball) and the 85 Bears defense....The early 90s Eagles were a really good group. I have to admit, I love watching a defense control a game. I get tired of football being turned into an Xbox game where teams just march up and down the field
Eagles defense of the early 90's always seemed to play poorly in the playoffs.
I suspect the Ravens defense set up lots of short fields for the offense too, but I can't remember specifically. In any case, 28 points a game for the Bears seems very respectable, especially back then.
28 points is more than i would have guessed but if you look at the stats you can see tons of points off of turnovers...
they had 34 interceptions (2+ a game) four returned for TDs.. they had 27 fumble recoveries (1 returned for a TD) that's just under 2 a game.. so nearly 4 turnovers a game on average... plus they recorded 3 Safeties and 2 TD on special teams.. so i bet that offense didn't have to do a ton to put up those 28 points. Still, they were a far cry from the Ravens offense in 2000.
I'm sure that's all true, and 20 points/game for the '00 Ravens sounds high to me -- I'm sure many of those came off defensive scores.
I think the '00 Ravens team lost 3 straight in mid season, failing to score ANY TDs and forced a QB change by Bellick... so 20 points a game by the '00 Ravens offense would have been a track meet...
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