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How long does a guy have to play at an elite level to be worthy of elite consideration? I'm curious as to what you guys think...
@bill, I agree, I'm not comparing Cousins to Ryan. To reference my above question, I was pointing out that Cousins has clearly played at a Top 10 level in two consecutive seasons. How long does he have to sustain that level of play to warrant that consideration? At the very least, he's shown himself to not be a one-hit (one season) wonder, flash in the pan...
This is all interwoven into our larger discussion of the Top 4 right now. What is the criteria for QB greatness--not all-time greatness, but I guess in simple terms, I'm asking what makes a great QB?
@Dave, I have long been a Ryan fan. His down '15 was more an anomaly, because he's been above average his entire career. I didn't see the explosion this year coming, though; I thought he'd be 'back to normal', but he was the best QB this season. Its not altogether surprising, but I have to say, he's got to win a championship, he's gotta at least get to the big one kill the noise. A loss on Sunday will drop his playoff record to 2-5, 0-2 NFC Championship Game. Fair or not, playoff performance and record plays into how quarterbacks are judged. If he loses this week, the noise only becomes louder that he can't win the big games...
No. I like Ryan, he is a very good QB, but one could make the case that Wilson or Brees belong above him in the top 4. Personally I would lean toward Wilson, he was won far more consistently then Ryan over the years.
Can't compare Cousins to Ryan who has a track record that spans almost an entire decade. He's also lead his team to two NFC Championship games now in the last five seasons. And this most recent season he was not only the best QB in the NFL statistically, but also put together one of the all time greatest seasons statistically for a QB, probably top 5 all time I am going to guess.
IMO, Cousins compares more with Carr than he does Ryan.
Prior to last week Matt Ryan had 9 TDs and 7 INTs and was 1-4 in his playoff career and nobody considered him a top 5 QB, not even close. Not sure one playoff game that is not called the Super Bowl totally changes that. And I hesitate to use the "top alltime" argument as the game has changed so dramatically. Cousins has the all time Redskins single season passing record but that hardly means he was better than Sammy Baugh or Sonny Jurgenson.
But like I said I was thrilled to see him play spectacularly this past game, just as I was happy to see Tony Gonzales finally get a playoff win with the Falcons. As much as I like the Pack, my second favorite team, I will be rooting for Atlanta this weekend. You guys deserve this.
Looking at Ryan, I think he has a better arm and accuracy than Wilson, just my take. It always comes down to the players around a QB, not just the QBs talent. Seahawks trips to the SB recently were just as much about the defense, not the offense, offense star players. It is unfortunate sometimes the QB gets talked about for team losses as "their" fault.
Prior to last week Matt Ryan had 9 TDs and 7 INTs and was 1-4 in his playoff career and nobody considered him a top 5 QB, not even close.
Like I said, his past current season, playoffs completely aside, was probably an all-time top 5 season for a QB in-terms of QB rating. IMO, that is good enough to make him a current top 4 QB in the league.
First part of the article speaks to Ryan's perception in NFL annals. I think he's Top 4, but it's not an airtight lock. The person I really debate is Ben's inclusion, but Ryan has certainly changed opinions and easily was Top 3, possibly the very best this season...
Like I said, his past current season, playoffs completely aside, was probably an all-time top 5 season for a QB in-terms of QB rating. IMO, that is good enough to make him a current top 4 QB in the league.
See I don't see how you can place him that high due to this regular season. What if he didn't play well and the Falcons got bounced in the playoffs. Again. Nobody would have put Ryan in the top 4 then, he would have remained in Mathew Stafford territory.
That is why I believe that playoff game was huge and did a lot to push him near the top tier, a spot he simply did not belong in the past. But one game early in the playoffs does not suddenly elevate you to that rare air of top 4. No I still see that occupied by Brady, Rodgers, Roth and Brees. You need a ring, sustained playoff success as well as a lot of amazing regular seasons to be in that company IMO.
See I don't see how you can place him that high due to this regular season. What if he didn't play well and the Falcons got bounced in the playoffs. Again. Nobody would have put Ryan in the top 4 then, he would have remained in Mathew Stafford territory.
Why? Wasn't that most of Peyton's career? He always finished the regular season as a top 1 or 2 QB statistically and often was bounced from the playoffs early. But it would probably be hard to find someone who didn't think he was a top 4 QB in those seasons. And this was before he actually won in 2006. So the argument that he was a super bowl champion QB doesn't work.
If the question is whether the 4 teams left are quarterbacked by the 4 best QB's in the NFL THIS SEASON
Then I think we have 3 of the 4 playing....Brady, Ryan, Rodgers were clearly 3 of the top 4 this season, Ben was barely in the top 10 this season...I would put Carr as the 4th best THIS SEASON
If the question is whether the 4 teams left are quarterbacked by the best 4 QB's still playing in the NFL ALL TIME
Then I still think we have 3 of the 4 playing but now its Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben....I would put Brees 4th
If the question is whether the 4 teams left are quarterbacked by the 4 best QB's in the NFL THIS SEASON
Then I think we have 3 of the 4 playing....Brady, Ryan, Rodgers were clearly 3 of the top 4 this season, Ben was barely in the top 10 this season...I would put Carr as the 4th best THIS SEASON
If the question is whether the 4 teams left are quarterbacked by the best 4 QB's still playing in the NFL ALL TIME
Then I still think we have 3 of the 4 playing but now its Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben....I would put Brees 4th
I think the questions is asking a little bit of both. That's why I'm okay with Big Ben and Ryan both being included. Like the Pro-Bowl, Brees and Carr are the alternates.
To answer both questions, you really have to look at play from this season only and play from previous seasons to be able to come to a conclusion.
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