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If the question is Top 4 this year, there's no way Ben makes the list, and I've been saying that the entire thread. Two average playoff performances don't raise his stature for 2016 unless he absolutely elevates his game tomorrow and potentially in the Super Bowl. His stat line through two playoff games: 88.9 passer rating, 67.3 completion percentage, 2-3 td/int ratio, 8.6 ypa, 210.5 ypg....those are solid numbers, but those by no configuration are elite numbers, even for the postseason. Being that he didn't have an elite regular season, the only justification for him being Top 4 based on this season would be by him having an elite postseason run. So far, he hasn't done it. Not Top 4 right now...
Also, if the question is Top 4 this year, I also think Derek Carr's year was overrated. Brees outplayed him not only in Week 1 head-to-head, but Brees outplayed him throughout the duration of the season. Carr and the Raiders were a good story this year, and he was worthy of MVP consideration because of the team's success, but at best Carr was the 5th-best QB this season...
Brees quietly had his best seasons since '13 this year and for a man who has been a Top 4 QB since around 2006, year-in/year-out, he still flies under the radar. I'll save my Brees boosting for the "All-Time" thread, but there is no way Carr is a better quarterback than Brees right now. 2016 Carr vs Brees:
About the only thing Carr did better was take care of the football. I don't see how the Top 4 should include Carr. It's Brady/Ryan/Rodgers/Brees, interchangeable, and most certainly does not include Ben Roethlisberger....'if' the question is Top 4 2016...
IF the question is Top 4 in The League right now based on career resume, it still isn't these four, because Ryan would be the odd man out...again for Drew Brees. Even if the Falcons won the entire thing, I'm not sure it would elevate Ryan over Brees, because he'd only tie Brees in rings and still have a lesser playoff record; both would be 1-1 in NFC Championship Games, and Brees would still have a much more impressive statistical resume, and currently have the better consistency...
As it stands now, it remains to be seen if Ryan caps his career year with a chip, so he's not even in a discussion for Top 4 right now based on resume. That's Brady/Brees/Roethlisberger/Rodgers, interchangeable. Drew Brees is one of the most accurate passers in league history, one of the most explosive quarterbacks ever, and he's getting short shift in this thread in a major way. In the Peyton Manning/Tom Brady era of the NFL--which means NFL since 1998--Brees is the 3rd greatest QB of that time span. It's only slightly debatable, hinging on Rodgers' ability to beat Brees to another title, because as it stands now, Brees has been greater for longer, although Rodgers has better career postseason success. At worst case scenario, Drew Brees is the 4th-greatest quarterback of the last 19 seasons of NFL football if you're a Rodgers loyalist. He's Top 12-ish all-time and has a case to be made for Top 10 status, as good as some other guys...
Any way you slice it, the answer to this thread OP is a resounding NO. 3 of the Top 4, yes, but collectively, these are not the 4 best quarterbacks in the NFL today. It doesn't matter whether we're viewing '16 only, or looking at active QB resumes....the answer is no...
I want to add another wrinkle, too. It may be a bit too ambitious to suggest Ryan had a Top 5 all time season, whether we view from a statistical platform or a non-statistical, anecdotal lens. Off the top of my head, in recent memory, '07 Brady and '13 Manning blow '16 Ryan out of the room, and in truth, those two guys may have another year by themselves that's better than this year for Ryan (I'd have to investigate further). '11 Rodgers gets the narrow edge over '16 Ryan, and it is completely debatable that '11 Brees was better than '16 Ryan, though I can see that being more of a toss-up...
So, from an analytical view, Ryan 'may' just barely make the cut, but odds are, he's not had a Top 5 all time season. From an anecdotal level, we can make the case for many seasons/players, several with just Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees themselves, who had a better year than Ryan. Bottom line is Ryan had to cap this year with a ring. He's the odd man out and playing catch up to guys of the most recent 20 years of pro football, to say nothing of the transcendent seasons quarterbacks of pre-1998 had...
I do think '16 Ryan is better than Roethlisberger's career year (2014)...
It just goes to show you how good Ben Roethlisberger actually is when a regular-season TD/INT ratio of 29/13 is considered a "down" season for him. And his fourth-quarter performance against the Ravens on Christmas was epic for several reasons:
1. It occurred with the playoffs on the line.
2. The Ravens had the top-ranked defense in the NFL at the time.
3. Every WR on the roster not named Antonio Brown was brought up from the practice squad.
4. Roethlisberger's 300th and 301st career TD passes occurred during that quarter.
That game proved that he still has what it takes to win when it matters most, even in less-than-ideal circumstances, such as facing a tough defense with only one reliable weapon in the passing game. Sadly, I believe he'll ultimately end up underrated from a historical perspective, because people are only interested in the height of peaks. Nobody seems to care about the length of ridges.
He was not one of the top four QBs in the NFL this season, but among all QBs who have peaked in this century, he has no worse than the fifth-best body of work of them all.
Ryan is on the bubble. This is a very good "Players Only" roundtable! He has to win these games!
Ryan made a pretty big argument yesterday.. i guess the question is.. obviously if he wins the SB he gets in.. he's been on the cusp for many year so IMO, he is in with a win.. but if he plays really well and still loses the SB, does he get his Elite Card??? I say no... he has always been a really good QB but this is the first year he has played at this level, so in my opinion.. he has to do this a few more years.. JMO.
Why? Wasn't that most of Peyton's career? He always finished the regular season as a top 1 or 2 QB statistically and often was bounced from the playoffs early. But it would probably be hard to find someone who didn't think he was a top 4 QB in those seasons. And this was before he actually won in 2006. So the argument that he was a super bowl champion QB doesn't work.
No actually it does still work. Peyton has the all time yardage total and an unbelievable career. Yet despite 2 rings the feeling is his lack of iconic playoff performances keeps him off Mt Rushmore on the all time list. However his long string of regular season success constantly put him as a top 2 QB at any given time. Ryan has no such string yet.
The talk today is Brady and if he is the GOAT. People debate Mt Rushmore all the time, the names Montana, Unitas etc are constantly mentioned. Know who is rarely mentioned despite his resume? Peyton Manning.
Matt Ryan has a sick passer rating of 132 in the playoffs after beating the Seahawks and Packers with a 71% completion rate, 7 TD passes, 1 rushing TD, averaging 365 yards per game with zero interceptions. For the season he was 50 yards shy of 5000 yards (only 5 QBs in history have done that), has a league leading passer rating of 117 (well ahead of 2nd place Brady), 38 TDs (2nd in league) and the third highest percentage of completions (69.9). Middle pack my ass.
No actually it does still work. Peyton has the all time yardage total and an unbelievable career. Yet despite 2 rings the feeling is his lack of iconic playoff performances keeps him off Mt Rushmore on the all time list. However his long string of regular season success constantly put him as a top 2 QB at any given time. Ryan has no such string yet.
The talk today is Brady and if he is the GOAT. People debate Mt Rushmore all the time, the names Montana, Unitas etc are constantly mentioned. Know who is rarely mentioned despite his resume? Peyton Manning.
Well, i don't know what others think but I have always considered Peyton as one of the best EVER. I don't need stats.. i saw him play and he was easily one of the best QBs I ever saw play and I saw more than most! I never really thought about a Mt Rushmore of QBs but if I did, Peyton Manning would certainly be up there... no question about it.
Well, i don't know what others think but I have always considered Peyton as one of the best EVER. I don't need stats.. i saw him play and he was easily one of the best QBs I ever saw play and I saw more than most! I never really thought about a Mt Rushmore of QBs but if I did, Peyton Manning would certainly be up there... no question about it.
And I can certainly see that opinion. But as someone who likes to debate all time lists and have seen a ton of them I assure you Peyton does not appears on anyone's top 4 all time list as often as you would think he would. The reason is like Marino how you play in January is a huge factor. And I'm not so sure that's wrong, the playoffs are what separated Derick Jeter from A-Rod. Those lists consistently have Montana, Brady, Unitas and then there's a lot of Elways, Sammy Baugh etc.
I was actually kicking around the idea that had Rodgers won this SB he would start entering the conversation.
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