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Old 11-18-2018, 03:06 PM
 
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I guarantee Eli will get it in. It will be a while but he will get in. He shouldn’t but he will. The “most people” are the people who have the votes.

So Rivers is 6th of his generation of QBs? That’s pretty close to top five and not bad at all. Big Ben has also benefited from playing with one of the better run football organizations. The Chargers on the other hand are run by a bunch of clowns similar to the Bills and Browns.

And Rivers has been more efficient. That’s a fact. I never said he was significantly more efficient.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:22 PM
Status: ""...I wrote it down, now I follow thru..."" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
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Today was the perfect microcosm of Ben vs Rivers. Rivers and team are up and can put the Broncos away, but Rivers starts turning it over. Ben and team are down 16-0 on the road, partly due to Ben's mistakes, and he leads his team back to victory. One guy has shown the ability to overcome adversity for years. One guy has shown for years that even if his team is up the lead isn't safe. Which guy would you rather have?
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:14 AM
 
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Philip Rivers clearly has second tier level HoF numbers adjusted for era (per Chase Stuart 21st all time and per Brad Oremland 22nd all time), but it might not be enough to get him in the HoF. He really needs a SB win, though not betting he'll get it.

Eli Manning doesn't belong in the HoF, but the online and commentator candidacy machine has been working overtime touting him as such the last few years, mostly because of his two SB wins. He ranks 57th in Oremland's system and 120th in Stuart's, which is not at viable HoF levels. He might get in anyway, though he doesn't deserve to.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:57 AM
Status: ""...I wrote it down, now I follow thru..."" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
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The worst thing that could happen to the Pro Football Hall of Fame is allowing Eli Manning to get in. That would open the floodgates for a ton of middling quarterbacks who were borderline great to just good (Rivers, Romo, Ryan being prominent examples of this era), but were better than Eli, to get in. We would become like the Basketball Hall of Fame that lets everybody in...
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Old 11-19-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Here or There
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
The worst thing that could happen to the Pro Football Hall of Fame is allowing Eli Manning to get in. That would open the floodgates for a ton of middling quarterbacks who were borderline great to just good (Rivers, Romo, Ryan being prominent examples of this era), but were better than Eli, to get in. We would become like the Basketball Hall of Fame that lets everybody in...
No, the worse thing was letting Joe Namath in.
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by IXCell View Post
No, the worse thing was letting Joe Namath in.
Joe Namath's HoF case is complicated, more so than most. Regular season stat-wise, he's worse than borderline, though he does have a really good, if short, peak (honors of 4/5/allAFL aren't too shabby for a QB, actually). Injuries ruined his career, unfortunately.

His case is also very narrative heavy, which is unusual for the PFHoF. He won what is probably the most significant Super Bowl of them all, the one that showed the upstart AFL was on par with the NFL. He was the only athlete on Nixon's "Enemies List." He was arguably the major prize signing for the AFL back when that was a big deal. And he cut the second biggest "larger than life" figure in sports at the time, behind only Muhammad Ali.

There are worse HoFers than Namath, actually, though he's really a second tier guy at best.

If it's truly weak PFHoF choices you're looking for, there's no shortage of them: Charles Bidwill, Eddie DeBartolo, Joe Guyon, Walt Kiesling, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Fred Dean, Richard Dent, Floyd Little, Dick LeBeau, Alex Wojciechowicz, and Emmitt Thomas among them. I think Namath's arguably a better choice than any of them.
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Old 11-20-2018, 06:36 AM
 
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Rivers and Romo are two different QBs. The overall efficiency numbers and lack of playoff success are similar. But if Rivers gets in over Romo it will be because he played at a high level for a very long time. They both came into the league in 2004. Rivers is still playing at a high level where as Romo hasn’t played in two years. Throwing away their first two seasons where both sat on the bench and Romo’s final two injury plagued seasons and he only played 9.5 seasons of good football. Rivers is at 13 seasons and counting.

Jerome Bettis got in on longevity alone. He played such a long time he had good total numbers even though his efficiency was terrible. The opposite of a guy like Bettis at the RB position Frank Gore. Gore has played forever and has emmasseed total numbers few have ever bested. All with very good eficiency. Neither guy was really considered a top 1 or 2 RBin the league at any point in their career outside of possibly one season. Rivers will have good numbers and good efficiency. Just not the payoff success of guys like Big Ben and Brees.
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Old 11-20-2018, 06:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bachslunch View Post

If it's truly weak PFHoF choices you're looking for, there's no shortage of them: Charles Bidwill, Eddie DeBartolo, Joe Guyon, Walt Kiesling, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Fred Dean, Richard Dent, Floyd Little, Dick LeBeau, Alex Wojciechowicz, and Emmitt Thomas among them. I think Namath's arguably a better choice than any of them.
Jerome Bettis should be well cemented in that list.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:49 AM
Status: ""...I wrote it down, now I follow thru..."" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Rivers and Romo are two different QBs. The overall efficiency numbers and lack of playoff success are similar. But if Rivers gets in over Romo it will be because he played at a high level for a very long time. They both came into the league in 2004. Rivers is still playing at a high level where as Romo hasn’t played in two years. Throwing away their first two seasons where both sat on the bench and Romo’s final two injury plagued seasons and he only played 9.5 seasons of good football. Rivers is at 13 seasons and counting.

Jerome Bettis got in on longevity alone. He played such a long time he had good total numbers even though his efficiency was terrible. The opposite of a guy like Bettis at the RB position Frank Gore. Gore has played forever and has emmasseed total numbers few have ever bested. All with very good eficiency. Neither guy was really considered a top 1 or 2 RBin the league at any point in their career outside of possibly one season. Rivers will have good numbers and good efficiency. Just not the payoff success of guys like Big Ben and Brees.
I can make the argument that Romo and Rivers are equal caliber of player at their very best. But sure, the longevity will tilt their All-Time placement in Rivers' favor...
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I can make the argument that Romo and Rivers are equal caliber of player at their very best. But sure, the longevity will tilt their All-Time placement in Rivers' favor...
And I am fine with players getting in based on a longevity factor. That is assuming they were very good for the majority of that time. Eli Manning and Bettis are perfect examples of players who will have/had pretty good total yardage and TD numbers because they played a long time but should not be in the HOF because they played poorly just as often as they played well.
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