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Any maps I see of NFL fanbase territory, which I know is subjective, nonetheless shows Baltimore having very little, disproportionate to areas that are close and proximate.
The Ravens are the clear number one team in Baltimore, but the Orioles occupy a greater number of counties that have them as the top NFL club. Obviously this is due to Baltimore losing the Colts, not having football for 13 seasons, then getting a team but in 1996 vs 1950. Then it also is because in baseball, the reverse, DC did not have a baseball team for over 30 years, leaving a void somewhat filled though not nearly as much as they claim, by the Orioles.
So my question, if the Colts never left Baltimore/or if the Ravens had been around since the Colts in the 50s, and if 1996 onward they had the same non Jim Irsay management, what would the Ravens/Baltimore's NFL fan shed look like?
Currently outside Baltimore the Ravens seem to have the following markets:
-Annapolis, most of the eastern shore (and even these I wonder how tenuous it is should the Washington team ever get good).
While the Orioles have, in addition:
-The entire eastern shore of MD, southern DE, and VA portions
-Fredneck, Hagerstown, possibly Cumberland, Martinsburg, WV
-York/Gettysburg, South Central PA.
Is it fair to say, if the Ravens were around since the 50s in Baltimore or the Colts never left and were run like the Ravens from 1995 to now, would the Baltimore fan shed:
-Cover all of Maryland, aside from Garret County, Eastern Cecil County, and Montgomery/PG...even having southern MD?
-The eastern Panhandle of WV?
-The parts of PA closest to Baltimore (Harrisburg)?
Interesting topic..
And I think the potential popularity of a stationary Colts franchise, would've been tied a lot to the Redskins' performance.
I can speak to West Virginia's eastern panhandle, which was solidly Redskin country all thru the 8os & 9os. Washington was basically only an hour away (less traffic back then) & DC had one of the best franchises of the 8os. So I don't think a team that (hypothetically) stayed all thru the 8os in Baltimore, would've peeled many Charles Town & Martinsburg fans away from the Skins.
Now, in an alternate history, where Washington sucked thru the 8os, it is conceivable that WV's eastern panhandle may have shed fans in to Steeler & Baltimore Colt fanbases..
Look.. i don't think the Baltimore fanbase decreased at all after the Colts left. Even when the town was left without football at all. It take a LOT to destroy a fanbase in that area. Just look at Dan Snyder. He hasn't killed it, but lord, it's on life support.
Look at the Angelos with the Orioles.. That team, with a few exceptions, has sucked since the late 90's. they kept the Baltimore band going while there was no team. A Baltimore indoor football team was playing an away game here in upstate SC.. Fans from Baltimore came to see it.
You cannot break a Baltimore/DC Area sports fan. You can bend them into a pretzel, but they won't break. They made it through two of the worst NFL owners ever in Irsay and Snyder. Made it through the old man Pollin years with the Caps and Bullets
Wizards haven't been relevant since the late 70's.. Caps, after years of frustration, finally won a cup but are heading down the rebuild road.
They lost nothing but years/seasons from the team moving. They took in the Browns/Ravens and.. To them, they are the Colts.
I wonder if the gap when the Colts left, and then Baltimore essentially getting an expansion team did erode what the fanbase REGIONALLY would be otherwise?
I wonder if the gap when the Colts left, and then Baltimore essentially getting an expansion team did erode what the fanbase REGIONALLY would be otherwise?
I don't really think so. There was almost always discussion and talk about Baltimore getting another franchise, either another team moving there or via expansion.. So, I don't think the fever ever really died.
There was almost always discussion and talk about Baltimore getting another franchise, either another team moving there or via expansion.. So, I don't think the fever ever really died.
Yeah.. do u remember, Baltimore had a popular and successful CFL team in the mid 9os (Stallions). Baltimore still had an appetite for pro football after the Colts exodus..
Yeah.. do u remember, Baltimore had a popular and successful CFL team in the mid 9os (Stallions). Baltimore still had an appetite for pro football after the Colts exodus..
Really reminds me quite a bit about the situation St Louis is in right now. It's.. A sad situation that a team isn't there. The fanbase has proven itself that they will show up for football through the XFL.
Baltimore's early days in the NFL were 3-9 seasons, by 1956 they were making some progress. And Johnny Unitas took that team to the top level in 1958 and 1959. From 1958 to 1972 the Colts were one of the hallmark franchises in the NFL. They were loaded with stars who eventually went into the HOF; Unitas, Lenny Moore, Jim Parker, John Mackey, Gino Marchetti, Raymond Berry, and lots of solid players.
I don't believe this has ever been mentioned on this forum but if you look closely at old Colt games that NFL films has shown over the years you will see the Colts playing with the lights on. There was good reason for it. As a kid growing up in an AFL city I talked my Dad into buying a small portable tv set to go with the big console we had. In a CBS doubleheader I would see the Colts on the 2 p.m. game with CBS and with NBC covering AFL games. Yes, the Colts games would kick off at 4 p.m. EST. Not ALL the games but a lot of games.
Though Green Bay won 5 NFL championships in the 1960's the Colts had winning seasons all through the 1960's, I'm sure Pete Rozelle had a lot to do with the scheduling of those games. I don't believe Memorial Stadium had a long consecutive sellout streak but still Colt fans would pack that place on Sunday. During that era Carroll Rosenbloom was the owner awe are still talking about the 1950's here and remember a lot of NFL clubs had few black players and a few not having any. the Colts in 1958 had more than most with Johnny Sample, Sherman Plunkett, Jim Parker, John Mackey, Gene "Big Daddy" Lipscomb, Lenny Lyles, and others IMO one of the best owners in the NFL was Rosenbloom during those years.
And then came Robert Irsay and I will cover that in the next couple days.
Baltimore's early days in the NFL were 3-9 seasons, by 1956 they were making some progress. And Johnny Unitas took that team to the top level in 1958 and 1959. From 1958 to 1972 the Colts were one of the hallmark franchises in the NFL. They were loaded with stars who eventually went into the HOF; Unitas, Lenny Moore, Jim Parker, John Mackey, Gino Marchetti, Raymond Berry, and lots of solid players.
I don't believe this has ever been mentioned on this forum but if you look closely at old Colt games that NFL films has shown over the years you will see the Colts playing with the lights on. There was good reason for it. As a kid growing up in an AFL city I talked my Dad into buying a small portable tv set to go with the big console we had. In a CBS doubleheader I would see the Colts on the 2 p.m. game with CBS and with NBC covering AFL games. Yes, the Colts games would kick off at 4 p.m. EST. Not ALL the games but a lot of games.
Though Green Bay won 5 NFL championships in the 1960's the Colts had winning seasons all through the 1960's, I'm sure Pete Rozelle had a lot to do with the scheduling of those games. I don't believe Memorial Stadium had a long consecutive sellout streak but still Colt fans would pack that place on Sunday. During that era Carroll Rosenbloom was the owner awe are still talking about the 1950's here and remember a lot of NFL clubs had few black players and a few not having any. the Colts in 1958 had more than most with Johnny Sample, Sherman Plunkett, Jim Parker, John Mackey, Gene "Big Daddy" Lipscomb, Lenny Lyles, and others IMO one of the best owners in the NFL was Rosenbloom during those years.
And then came Robert Irsay and I will cover that in the next couple days.
All that and you left out the best player on the team. Art Donovan.
One of the funniest, nicest, most personable people.. I still remember him from his many Letterman appearances.
You don't think the Colts/Ravens would have more of a regional pull in Harrisburg, Western/Southern/Eastern Shore MD?
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