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Yeah, you run to the outside. Sweeps. You can't just NOT run the ball. This isn't Arena football. The OL held up pretty well in pass protection.. Ok, so they couldn't open any running holes.. Run where they aren't.
If there's zero chance that you're going to run the ball, makes defense a whole lot easier.
Even if the running game isn't working, you have to keep trying.. to a point. Now, end of the game, you're in a box. The passing game relies on the running game. It's almost like they're saying "See, Kirk can't win the game by himself, so that's why we're not going to resign him"
And then they're going to start Colt McCoy. And be three years behind.. And then they'll bench him for some goober they picked up in free agency, like an Osweiler. Then they'll draft someone in the first round again. This is the song that never ends...
Outside of that.. Has anyone heard anything about the Su'a Cravens situation? I know he's not coming back this year, but I haven't heard that he's officially retired or anything, either.
Last I heard was he might come back next year and that teammates seemed to understand and support his decision to step away.
I think what you're not understanding is that when you have injured talent up front and only one healthy tight end, you simply cannot install certain packages. For one thing, it could be that those players up front are brand new to the team - not just to starting for the team. So, they're thrown into the fire right away due to injury. You install packages based on the available players you have in addition to trying to have the right effective packages for game planning. In the case of the Redskins, they have so many players injured, the only thing Gruden can do is see who is talent is on the field, and put in the packages that they are most effective at running. That will skew the run/pass balance, based on the talent you have to work with. Now, you can say, "Well, those players need to do this or that better", well, now you get into a GM issue that hasn't much directly to do with Jay Gruden. Jay is simply trying to utilize the talent he has to work with to the best of his ability. Kelley has been injured. Perine hasn't been effective, Chris Thompson cannot play on every down. I think you way under estimate the athletic ability of guys like Trent Williams and Brian Scherff. On those screen plays to Thompson where he goes for 30 or 40 yards, you see Williams ans Scherff way up field making blocks. Those guys are extremely athletic, and there's a reason why those guys are Pro Bowl players. It isn't simply a case of Xbox Madden football where you just plug another warm body in and suddenly you can continue doing the same thing you did before. It doesn't work that way at all.
And about plugging other people in, I think some of you guys don't understand the differences to how free agency and IR worked back in the 80's and how it works today. Back in the 80's, Coach Gibbs could "store", basically, as many highly talented athletes on IR as he possibly could. I mean, guys that could easily be starting for other teams, but maybe they had some minor injury. Gibbs could put them on IR and activate them when a starter went down. Which means, it was closer to being plug and play back in those days than it is now. You can't do that that now, and the talent drop off from second tier and below is much more significant than it used to be.
So, having said all of that, injuries affect play calling. Sometimes, you're simply NOT going to be able to run the ball or pass down field. Yes, I know that our wide receivers leave a lot to be desired right now. You can blame Bruce Allen for that. Not Jay Gruden. Seeing how the Redskins have managed to play teams so tough, even dominate teams at one point, without the weapons they once had and injured and inconsistent players they have now, is a testament to how this coaching staff has prepared. I think Jay Gruden is doing the best he can possibly do with the cards that have been dealt to him. You can talk about he needs to be on the hot seat all you want, but the same thing would happen to any other coach. This constant merry-go-round of switching coaches every 4 years needs to stop. Gruden hasn't been widely successful, but he has fielded teams who fight, work, and have the ability to wins games when healthy. If this team didn't have the amount of injuries it has sustained, this team would easily be a 10 win team. Easily. They will be lucky to win 7 games with the injuries they have now. Some guys may wind up going to IR (possibly Trent Williams), a lot of guys already have been sent to IR. You just cannot expect business as usual in the circumstances this team has faced this year. And blowing it all up and getting rid of the coaching staff will does nothing to solve the problem. For Pete's sake, we've been getting rid of the coaching staff for the last 20 years. Tell me how that's worked out for this team in the last 20 years?
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37
I think what you're not understanding is that when you have injured talent up front and only one healthy tight end, you simply cannot install certain packages. For one thing, it could be that those players up front are brand new to the team - not just to starting for the team. So, they're thrown into the fire right away due to injury. You install packages based on the available players you have in addition to trying to have the right effective packages for game planning. In the case of the Redskins, they have so many players injured, the only thing Gruden can do is see who is talent is on the field, and put in the packages that they are most effective at running. That will skew the run/pass balance, based on the talent you have to work with. Now, you can say, "Well, those players need to do this or that better", well, now you get into a GM issue that hasn't much directly to do with Jay Gruden. Jay is simply trying to utilize the talent he has to work with to the best of his ability. Kelley has been injured. Perine hasn't been effective, Chris Thompson cannot play on every down. I think you way under estimate the athletic ability of guys like Trent Williams and Brian Scherff. On those screen plays to Thompson where he goes for 30 or 40 yards, you see Williams ans Scherff way up field making blocks. Those guys are extremely athletic, and there's a reason why those guys are Pro Bowl players. It isn't simply a case of Xbox Madden football where you just plug another warm body in and suddenly you can continue doing the same thing you did before. It doesn't work that way at all.
And about plugging other people in, I think some of you guys don't understand the differences to how free agency and IR worked back in the 80's and how it works today. Back in the 80's, Coach Gibbs could "store", basically, as many highly talented athletes on IR as he possibly could. I mean, guys that could easily be starting for other teams, but maybe they had some minor injury. Gibbs could put them on IR and activate them when a starter went down. Which means, it was closer to being plug and play back in those days than it is now. You can't do that that now, and the talent drop off from second tier and below is much more significant than it used to be.
So, having said all of that, injuries affect play calling. Sometimes, you're simply NOT going to be able to run the ball or pass down field. Yes, I know that our wide receivers leave a lot to be desired right now. You can blame Bruce Allen for that. Not Jay Gruden. Seeing how the Redskins have managed to play teams so tough, even dominate teams at one point, without the weapons they once had and injured and inconsistent players they have now, is a testament to how this coaching staff has prepared. I think Jay Gruden is doing the best he can possibly do with the cards that have been dealt to him. You can talk about he needs to be on the hot seat all you want, but the same thing would happen to any other coach. This constant merry-go-round of switching coaches every 4 years needs to stop. Gruden hasn't been widely successful, but he has fielded teams who fight, work, and have the ability to wins games when healthy. If this team didn't have the amount of injuries it has sustained, this team would easily be a 10 win team. Easily. They will be lucky to win 7 games with the injuries they have now. Some guys may wind up going to IR (possibly Trent Williams), a lot of guys already have been sent to IR. You just cannot expect business as usual in the circumstances this team has faced this year. And blowing it all up and getting rid of the coaching staff will does nothing to solve the problem. For Pete's sake, we've been getting rid of the coaching staff for the last 20 years. Tell me how that's worked out for this team in the last 20 years?
And about plugging other people in, I think some of you guys don't understand the differences to how free agency and IR worked back in the 80's and how it works today. Back in the 80's, Coach Gibbs could "store", basically, as many highly talented athletes on IR as he possibly could. I mean, guys that could easily be starting for other teams, but maybe they had some minor injury. Gibbs could put them on IR and activate them when a starter went down. Which means, it was closer to being plug and play back in those days than it is now. You can't do that that now, and the talent drop off from second tier and below is much more significant than it used to be.
Huh? Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I thought that the IR rules were only changed about 7 to 10 years ago to allow someone to come off IR. It was changed again recently to allow 2 players to be placed on IR and return.
Starting in 2012, one player was allowed to return, this year, 2 are allowed to return
IR was a much bigger deal back in Gibbs' day.. You put someone on IR, their season was over. They could not play for the same team that season. Somehow, apparently there was a way that they could go on IR, get released, picked up by someone else and play for them though.
Huh? Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I thought that the IR rules were only changed about 7 to 10 years ago to allow someone to come off IR. It was changed again recently to allow 2 players to be placed on IR and return.
Starting in 2012, one player was allowed to return, this year, 2 are allowed to return
IR was a much bigger deal back in Gibbs' day.. You put someone on IR, their season was over. They could not play for the same team that season. Somehow, apparently there was a way that they could go on IR, get released, picked up by someone else and play for them though.
From the book "Super Bowl Heroes" By Billy Wilner:
"Rypien was one of many raw players with plenty of upside that teams would stash on injured reserve in the 1980s, when the roster rules were much less strict than they became in later years."
My point being that teams were able to stash good players away on IR, and then when time came that they needed them, activate them and suddenly, you have sandbagged a lot of solid, good players who you can plug in when the starters go down. The rules are much different and much more strict nowadays.
From the book "Super Bowl Heroes" By Billy Wilner:
"Rypien was one of many raw players with plenty of upside that teams would stash on injured reserve in the 1980s, when the roster rules were much less strict than they became in later years."
My point being that teams were able to stash good players away on IR, and then when time came that they needed them, activate them and suddenly, you have sandbagged a lot of solid, good players who you can plug in when the starters go down. The rules are much different and much more strict nowadays.
Rypien was put on IR, but they couldn't activate him off IR for the season.. Once you were on IR, that was it for the year. It's not like they put them on IR and "Hup, need a defensive lineman, pull this guy off IR".
I think what they meant there is that they were able to toss him onto IR to protect losing him to other teams. He was drafted in 1986, spent 1986 and 1987 on IR.. But they couldn't have activated him either of those years.
I don't particularly see where the rules are more stringent on this at present. Maybe there needs to be better documentation of an injury. But in season IR is far more relaxed now than it was in the day. I mean, Connor Shaw, who i've thought should get a good shot with some team has been on IR the past 3 years. Though, it was ligament damage in '15, and a broken leg in '16.. So, those are.. Yeah, I'd call those legit injuries.
I am so disappointed a promising season is pretty much over. When healthy this team showed it had improved dramatically on defense, they went from a joke to bad ass in one off season. They still have holes but with just a normal amount of injuries, and a decent schedule, this was a playoff team IMO. Now they have no chance.
Rypien was put on IR, but they couldn't activate him off IR for the season.. Once you were on IR, that was it for the year. It's not like they put them on IR and "Hup, need a defensive lineman, pull this guy off IR".
I think what they meant there is that they were able to toss him onto IR to protect losing him to other teams. He was drafted in 1986, spent 1986 and 1987 on IR.. But they couldn't have activated him either of those years.
I don't particularly see where the rules are more stringent on this at present. Maybe there needs to be better documentation of an injury. But in season IR is far more relaxed now than it was in the day. I mean, Connor Shaw, who i've thought should get a good shot with some team has been on IR the past 3 years. Though, it was ligament damage in '15, and a broken leg in '16.. So, those are.. Yeah, I'd call those legit injuries.
*Sigh*! Instead of assuming, why don't you actually draw your conclusions from Facts:
"Stashing players is an old N.F.L. custom, outside of the rules, whereby the club deactivates a player who may not necessarily have a legitimate injury for the sole purpose of keeping him under contract for future use. Players on the injured list are not counted against the roster limit, and teams may carry as many on the injured list as they want.
Players likely to be stashed are those with ''major injuries.'' They must remain inactive for a minimum of four games before they can rejoin the squad and often are carried for much longer periods. Teams are allowed five free activations during the season and a sixth during the playoffs. "
So, yes, they *can* in fact pull someone off of IR and put them in so long as they have been on IR for the minimum amount of weeks in the season. And this is where Joe Gibbs and a lot of other coaches were savvy at doing. Where as nowadays, there is a limit on who can be designated to IR. They can't just have hundreds upon hundreds of players under contract sitting on IR resting a sore toe, and not have those players count toward the total roster limit. That was changed a few years later, and has changed again in recent years.
And ALL of that was basically to say that it was much easier to plug 'n' play back in the 80's than it is now. If the rules were like they were back in the 80's, the Redskins would have had guys stashed on IR that could've been called up by now, good, solid starters, and the 'skins probably wouldn't have missed a beat. But, because the current rules are the way they are now, teams that suffer a magnitude of injuries like the Redskins have, are basically screwed. It then starts to affect play calling, because you don't have the personnel to run certain packages or plays. As a coach, you'd have to put in plays that you know the healthy guys can run, and if those guys are less talented and/or inexperienced, the playbook gets a lot smaller, which means a more vanilla offense, which means lower scoring, which also can mean a more imbalanced play calling. We can agree to disagree if you want to, but I draw my conclusions from facts, not an emotional knee-jerk reaction. Firing Gruden would be a knee-jerk reaction at this point, and is basically what Vinny Cerrato would do.
I am so disappointed a promising season is pretty much over. When healthy this team showed it had improved dramatically on defense, they went from a joke to bad ass in one off season. They still have holes but with just a normal amount of injuries, and a decent schedule, this was a playoff team IMO. Now they have no chance.
Yes, realistically, the Dallas game was a must win. The 'skins are now 0-3 in the division, and the best they can hope for is 3-3 when it's all said and done. Having to limp into Seattle and play a Seahawks team that has no problem putting up 40+ points is going to be a major challenge, and I don't know if the 'skins have enough in the tank to get it done. They could, realistically, be 3-6 after the next couple of weeks. The good thing is, some of these players, hopefully, will be getting a bit healthier and the schedule does get a bit lighter as the season progresses, so there's still hope that the season will at least end on a good note. Right now, this team will be lucky to win 7 games this season, as injured as it is.
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
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Yeah, I'd say 7-9 or 6-10 is our ceiling.
I agree with Dave. Really disappointed that the injury bug bit us so badly. We looked really good for a few weeks at full strength/health weeks 2 and 3. But since week 3 of the preseason, we have averaged 1 starter lost to injuries every week. That is friggin' brutal. There's simply no overcoming that.
I agree with Dave. Really disappointed that the injury bug bit us so badly. We looked really good for a few weeks at full strength/health weeks 2 and 3. But since week 3 of the preseason, we have averaged 1 starter lost to injuries every week. That is friggin' brutal. There's simply no overcoming that.
Gotta start looking at strength and conditioning for next year and see where we are going wrong. Injuries often happen because of that very reason. That's why you have some guys who get hammies easily, or have sprains, they are prone to some weakness (which we are all weaknesses). Some of the injuries have just been a freak of nature, but there has been a lot of knee injuries as of late. One thing I would definitely require of every player is that no matter what, you wear knee pads and those kneed pads cover the actual knee. I've seen so many wide receivers wear knee pads way up on their quads, which makes no sense. They have that knee right there being exposed to injury all in the name of trying to be a little faster. I'd rather have a tad bit slower receiver who can catch and be healthy in all 16 games than a bit faster one who's out 4-6 weeks each season. I understand the nature of competition, but there's a fine line between having the competitive edge and just being straight up dumb when it comes to protecting yourself.
I think it's Gruden's nephew or someone like that is the strength and conditioning coach. He is built like a bulldog! However, if he isn't getting these guys built and conditioned to withstand injury, he's not getting the job done. It's not just enough to build huge muscles, it's to have an athletic body that can withstand injury.
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Instead of assuming, why don't you actually draw your conclusions from Facts: 
