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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,682 posts, read 54,888,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat
I'm not sure what you mean? As I stated, I don't believe that people are 'entitled' to believe something harmful. This isn't hipster emotions, where it's 'cool' to like something niche like racism. Humans values SHOULD be the most popular opinions.
I do believe that right and wrong are subjective in that they are social regulations. But we are a society and there a beliefs that help a society function and beliefs that don't.
I agree with you, but sometimes what we as a society deem as 'right' is just what the majority believes. Once upon a time the majority felt stoning for adultery was the 'moral' thing to do because God/gods decreed it.
I think we can become self-righteous...Our sense of "being right" can go to our "head" and turn us into a zealot or even a "whacko!"...After awhile we no longer have a "balanced mind." Or an "open" mind...We start to view anyone who disagrees with us as the "enemy." (Someone who needs to be "shot-down" or given 200 "lashes" in the public square.)...Some people definitely start to consider themselves God and the ultimate and supreme "authority" when it comes to their beliefs and their innate "superiority!"...It's no fun to be around rigid and self-righteous people. They hardly ever have a sense of humor. Everything is "do or die" to them. Everything is very "intense" and "super serious!"...Maybe they were "mocked" and teased when they were growing-up and they are carrying around a lot of "old baggage." If so this is sad!.. But coming all "unglued" and turning into a "dictator" won't help them "win" respect or many friends in adulthood.
Nor does that matter to such a person. To the kind of person you have described, being right is the most important thing. This desire to be right is so powerful that it often renders a person unable to recognize the validity of another person's point of view. This, in turn, upsets them when they are unable to convince the other of their side of the argument. This often results in an abandonment of the original topic in favor of ad hominem attacks on those who disagree. "You must be ignorant if you don't believe..." But a difference of opinion is not ignorance. In fact, it is actually quite healthy. However, assuming ignorance of another party due to the mere pressence of a differing point of view...THAT I would consider to be ignorant.
Carizona... completely agree. So, can these people ever have a "friendly discussion" without taking their "opinions" to the extremes of yelling to be heard, hitting, etc. With individuals like that starting a conversation is like preparing for battle, making sure you have your shield and sword.
Iknowftbll.. it is healthy to be involved in a friendly debate, were both parties can exchange opinions. However, when your opinions become somewhat demands. Does this persons opinion, still an opinion? They yell and don't really have concrete reason as to were these opinions are coming from just rants and rages.
Iknowftbll.. it is healthy to be involved in a friendly debate, were both parties can exchange opinions. However, when your opinions become somewhat demands. Does this persons opinion, still an opinion? They yell and don't really have concrete reason as to were these opinions are coming from just rants and rages.
I don't think that opinion stops becoming opinion. At its base, opinion is what drives an individual's behavior when involved in a debate of some kind. However, some people simply cannot discuss an issue on the merits of their opinion and that of another. They have to deviate from the strength of opinion and transition to force. I guess this is what you are saying, really. Am I right?
Have you ever had a discussion in which the other person literally shouted you down? All you wanted was to present your side, and the other person simply will not hear it? It is still opinion driving that behavior, I believe. But it becomes adversarial when conflict is introduced. Do you think that person would shout you down if he/she agreed with you? Probably not. I do believe that for many of these people it is done out of a sense of insecurity. They are comfortable with their view on an issue and do not want any friction introduced. Meanwhile, others are so dead-set and stubborn that they simply cannot acknowledge that someone else may have a legitimate claim to a valid opinion.
I find a fair to moderate amt of people cannot accept any other view, but their own. They just cannot handle it. Funny, because I can poke fun of myself and my views about things. I can change my mind even! But,some people are so stewed in their own juices, as I put it,they'd rather just cook away.
I agree with you, but sometimes what we as a society deem as 'right' is just what the majority believes. Once upon a time the majority felt stoning for adultery was the 'moral' thing to do because God/gods decreed it.
Sure, but I don't believe in human rights and value because it happens to be more popular now than it was then (and of course we still have a very long way to go.)
To me, there are two criteria that determine right from wrong:
Does it cause real, measurable harm to someone? If yes, it's wrong
Does it stop real, measurable harm from being done? If yes, it's right
This is a separate issue from morals. You can have a moral like adultery is wrong without believing those who commit it should be stoned. I think adultery is terrible because it can cause real measurable harm such as the transmission of STDs to the unsuspecting spouse. But you can also hold a personal moral like purple is a naughty color that shouldn't be worn in public. Okay, whatever. But when you try to use the moral as a weapon and force others to follow it, you're crossing a line. And if you take it even further and start saying all people who wear purple are bad, evil people who should have their rights restricted, I am going to judge you as a person.
The other issue with debating opinions is that at the root they aren't actually debatable. An opinion by definition is not based on fact. The only requirement to hold an opinion is to believe in it...they are about faith and arguing faith is a dead end.
How can you debate with a person when their side of the debate comes down to "god says so?" Or "gays are icky?" There's no communication possible there.
Wow, I'm not the only one that has noticed that, lol.
I grew up in a large family and me and my siblings were home schooled (actually we were "unschooled," though I never liked that term, but for lack of another name...), my mother and father encouraged debate among us and always told us getting upset about the other viewpoint was closed mindedness and we needed to see and understand the other side of the issue.
Funny though, and no insult intended, I noticed the siblings who have become "liberal" are not so good in the area of tolerating the opposite view and tend to get a tad over emotional when confronted with a debate. Though, they are no where near as bad as some liberals I have come across, again no insult intended, I've encountered some very "pig headed" conservatives as well, just noticed this with the liberals in my family. The debates on opposite sides of the religious/spiritual spectrum never get emotional in our family, though that is definitely not the case outside our family circle, lol.
I enjoy a good debate and never get emotional or insulted/offended when others disagree. I can learn things in a debate, and have even changed my view (totally or slightly) based on things I learn. I find "offended" behavior a bit humorous, and an indication they are quite closed to seeing the other side of the issue and tend to just chalk it up to being too wrapped up in their emotions to debate in a reasonable manner or to learn anything from what I may have to present to them. There are some individuals that I have found that can debate without an emotional outburst and genuinely seem to enjoy the dialog even if it conflicts with their view, but they are few and far between.
I believe it is in everyones right to give their opinion regarding anything they are debating. Can all our opinions be concrete? Meaning, do they come from something we are knowledgeable of or just because we want our voice to heard regardless of who it hurts? Are our opinions so important that even if they cause harm we must bring our opinion out to be heard...? I am not an expert on this topic by no means. Throughout history we have seen how differences of opinion's affect many... in good and in bad ways.
It is a great topic. Thank you for bringing it up.
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