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I often hear even 'liberal' and 'enlightened' people on here and elsewhere talk about how men should be masculine and women should be feminine. Or maybe these forums are full of traditionalists.
Yet, it seems, rarely do they clearly define what traits are 'masculine' and 'feminine'. What things are so innately male or female that all males and all females should follow them?
I gave the above list as an example of one definition. I don't totally agree with it, although there's some truth, but I think the idea of feminine and masculine is mostly a social construction and is mostly BS.
Ultimately we should just let people be people without pressuring them to conform to gender expectations or stereotypes. The only 'givens' are that males have XY chromosomes and male sexual organs and females generally have XX chromosomes and female sexual organs. Why is there so much pressure for men to 'be men' and women to 'be ladies'? It's annoying. There's derision for non gender stereotypical behaviour, despite a supposed acceptance for gay and other relationships. A lot of men and women seem so inflexible when it comes to relationships, to the extent that women reject men that are seen as 'gay' and men don't think short hair is 'feminine' enough. Isn't it just because society TELLS them it's feminine?
I'm with you I think most of this stuff is cultural at best. I'm just going to interject my opinion right now on what I feel about "men be men" "women be women".
You have a penis and you are not made of plastic= Real Man
You have a vagina and breast and is not made of plastic= Real Women
Everything else is up to the individual. Our similarities trump our differences.
Overly ideal and unrealistic in a sense maybe but I'm taking this view of the world to my grave.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaybirdX
I'm with you I think most of this stuff is cultural at best. I'm just going to interject my opinion right now on what I feel about "men be men" "women be women".
You have a penis and you are not made of plastic= Real Man
You have a vagina and breast and is not made of plastic= Real Women
Everything else is up to the individual. Our similarities trump our differences.
Overly ideal and unrealistic in a sense maybe but I'm taking this view of the world to my grave.
That's it. There are many women my age who list things about men they don't like because they are 'gay', they look/seem gay, meaning feminine. Like something as ridiculous as short shorts or speedos. That's totally cultural. These people are so shallow and small-minded, I could never date someone like that. What's wrong with a man who looks pretty? Does it threaten you? I don't get why people have to be so mean to them/put them down just because they're different. It's no better than racism or something.
That's it. There are many women my age who list things about men they don't like because they are 'gay', they look/seem gay, meaning feminine. Like something as ridiculous as short shorts or speedos. That's totally cultural. These people are so shallow and small-minded, I could never date someone like that. What's wrong with a man who looks pretty? Does it threaten you? I don't get why people have to be so mean to them/put them down just because they're different. It's no better than racism or something.
That's what worries me after I leave college is that I'm going to run into less open minded people.
I mean when I see gender issues come up its either ignored or deterred with "its biology deal with it" or a personal opinion about history that is very skewed at best.
This article usually makes me feel better because it takes a humorous approach the gender expectation.
I often hear even 'liberal' and 'enlightened' people on here and elsewhere talk about how men should be masculine and women should be feminine. Or maybe these forums are full of traditionalists.
Yet, it seems, rarely do they clearly define what traits are 'masculine' and 'feminine'. What things are so innately male or female that all males and all females should follow them?
I gave the above list as an example of one definition. I don't totally agree with it, although there's some truth, but I think the idea of feminine and masculine is mostly a social construction and is mostly BS.
Ultimately we should just let people be people without pressuring them to conform to gender expectations or stereotypes. The only 'givens' are that males have XY chromosomes and male sexual organs and females generally have XX chromosomes and female sexual organs. Why is there so much pressure for men to 'be men' and women to 'be ladies'? It's annoying. There's derision for non gender stereotypical behaviour, despite a supposed acceptance for gay and other relationships. A lot of men and women seem so inflexible when it comes to relationships, to the extent that women reject men that are seen as 'gay' and men don't think short hair is 'feminine' enough. Isn't it just because society TELLS them it's feminine?
Very literal about human beings in innate. Sex roles, in particular, are much more the result of social conditioning than any "natural" psychological differences between men and women as a whole.
However, the idea men and women have fundamentally different natures is deeply ingrained, so much do that most people see it as "common sense." It is an extremely difficult bias to over come.
I'm with you I think most of this stuff is cultural at best. I'm just going to interject my opinion right now on what I feel about "men be men" "women be women".
You have a penis and you are not made of plastic= Real Man
You have a vagina and breast and is not made of plastic= Real Women
Everything else is up to the individual. Our similarities trump our differences.
Overly ideal and unrealistic in a sense maybe but I'm taking this view of the world to my grave.
Not overly ideal...just true, and very realistic (i think)...I agree completely
Australia might be a really chauvinistic society. Where I live, gender is widely considered an artificial construct, so I tend to go 'against the grain' and I think gender differences are inherent, just exaggerated somewhat.
I often hear even 'liberal' and 'enlightened' people on here and elsewhere talk about how men should be masculine and women should be feminine. Or maybe these forums are full of traditionalists.
Yet, it seems, rarely do they clearly define what traits are 'masculine' and 'feminine'. What things are so innately male or female that all males and all females should follow them?
I gave the above list as an example of one definition. I don't totally agree with it, although there's some truth, but I think the idea of feminine and masculine is mostly a social construction and is mostly BS.
Ultimately we should just let people be people without pressuring them to conform to gender expectations or stereotypes. The only 'givens' are that males have XY chromosomes and male sexual organs and females generally have XX chromosomes and female sexual organs. Why is there so much pressure for men to 'be men' and women to 'be ladies'? It's annoying. There's derision for non gender stereotypical behaviour, despite a supposed acceptance for gay and other relationships. A lot of men and women seem so inflexible when it comes to relationships, to the extent that women reject men that are seen as 'gay' and men don't think short hair is 'feminine' enough. Isn't it just because society TELLS them it's feminine?
The concepts of masculinity and femininity have nothing to do with gender, sex, or perceived orientational traits. Masculinity, in general, is about competition. In particular in which there can only be one winner (although the winner can oscillate between winning and losing and/or be a group). Roles are often issued and their is a definite hierarchy where everyone is in their place.
Femininity has to do with cooperation, no one individual is gaming to be top dog or the best. It's about what is best for the community, not the individual. It should be note, however, that community can be as small as a family unit. Their may or may not be roles involved under femininity, but there is no real hierarchal structure.
So, as you can see, a woman can be masculine and a man can be feminine while still being "a woman" and "a man".
There is more to it than that, but that is it at its most basic.
By the way, the second X chromosome in women is smaller and less active than the first X chromosome. It is speculated this is so to help match more closely with the male's Y chromosome.
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