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Old 07-22-2013, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medi View Post
Words like 'specimen', and 'mating game', 'healthy breeders'. Euughh. It's only a mating game, or a chess-board of checkboxes whenever you see it that way. Perspective is everything.

No woman has to sell herself to me as a 'healthy breeder', and I'm a pretty good looking guy (with my clothes on). If I have to become a rockstar to get women, what the hell does that say about the women I'd be dating? lol Na, I don't buy into it at all. If a woman only wants me when I'm powerful, or famous or rich, then that's exactly the kind of woman I don't want. Period.

So there you go. There's at least one guy who thinks differently than the modern western game of 'let's-climb-up-the-social-ladder-so-we-can-be-good-enough-to-get-women', and to the OP, there are plenty of women who think differently too.

Money, looks, status and fame only matter to the people who put value on those things above loyalty, respect, affection and contentment, the latter of which is a rare trait among women nowadays. First thing I'd say is learn to be content as you are and find a woman who can do the same. Because for those men that Sonic Spork describes above, (the rich, powerful, whatever) it isn't exactly the power and riches that a lot of these women are really attracted to, it's often the fact that those men are self-assured. If those men lost the money and riches, they would no longer be self-assured. If you learn to be self assured (and I don't mean arrogant or cocky or alpha, I mean quietly, and absolutely, fine with who and what you are, to know yourself and to accept your perceived flaws simply as unique qualities) when you have little, then you'll always be self assured nomatter what happens. And with that, honestly ask yourself, do you desire to be loved by women who think as Sonic SPork thinks they do; women who see the world like Sonic Spork describes them; women who only 'love' you conditionally? Or do you want something more real than that? In the same vein then, don't look for shallow women and don't expect shallow women to stop being shallow.

Second thing is get out of America. It's notoriously full of exactly the kind of women you don't want to meet; the ones that only want rich, powerful, 10/10, white-teethed, chisel-jawed, hung rockstars with every great quality of man; men who can also read minds and know exactly what these women want at any given moment and yet who should also be independent, assertive, dominant and a little 'bad' and irreverent. In plain English, they want the impossible man; the man who doesn't exist, a figment of their imaginations, a puppet whose sole purpose is to reflect, validate and appease their every whim and thought. The funny thing is, these women often lack in almost every area of their personalities and go on a sense of entitlement and looks themselves. They are the type set up to drain you. It's really psychopathy dressed up as socially acceptable practice. They see people as a set of traits and material possessions rather than real people, and often, if their wants and needs don't get met, they relegate said man to a place in their collective mind reserved for the sub-human among us.

American women are the reason you feel like you do buddy. It's not your fault.
I had to read this a couple times...and edit my response... Because actually, you are quite right in a sense. Many American women are like that. More significantly much of our media trains our ladies to act and think that way. Our society is leaning so far into this realm of entitlement and instant gratification...in many respects, we are really losing our way.

But not all of us. And I'm saying there are ladies here in the US, all around in the world, who would surprise you...but I doubt if you'll find many in the world of online dating. Honestly I don't recommend that for anyone.

My own marriage is a good example. My husband thinks he's horribly ugly, personally I find him to be pretty average looking. But looks aren't that important to me.

I was 18 years old, young and pretty, when I met him. He was not pretty, not fit, not rich, not powerful. He's over a decade older than I am. He's often insecure. But he's got some creative talents, he's reasonably smart and funny, he's a big, strong guy...not necessarily fit...just big/tall. He makes me feel protected. And he is absolutely honest and loyal...I always know I'm safe trusting him and he won't abandon me...he is a good man. I am a better person for having been his wife. I've been faithfully with him for 16 years now. I chose him over pretty men, wealthy men, younger men, rockstars (a few famous ones I'm friends with to this day, but turned down politely in the romance department)...loads of other guys I had a chance with. And a big part of it was just the two of us in the right place and time for things to come together. Neither of us was even looking for it, it just happened.

Every time we've had bumps in the road, if I've kvetched to other ladies about it, they are always saying I should leave him. Clucking hens, squawking on about how if he isn't my "soul mate" I should throw away our life and skip off to chase rainbows. Nonsense. The foolishness of American women in our society...no wonder I get along better with old ladies than women my age.

I'm not "normal women," but I understand them. And if you're shooting for only your typical "pretty, young" American women, well, you need to understand the game and play it. Or don't play it, but hey it is YOUR life. The post is a bit old now, but my point was...dude's got options. He just doesn't want to hear them, because they take effort. It's far easier to sit around saying, "my life stinks and it's everyone else's fault and there's nothing I can do." Kind of a cop-out in my opinion, because there are tons of examples of people with every disadvantage who made good and got whatever it is OP is longing for...but who wants to hear that? That takes...like...work.

Honestly I hate the game, and if I found myself widowed or something, I think I'd be single for the rest of my life. I'd go focus on my art, and myself, I think. But alone or not, I would be HAPPY. No one is obligated to play the game, sometimes the game is stupid...not having to "date" is one of my favorite reasons I'm glad to be married. And ultimately, I do not say that the OP should do anything specifically to impress women. I say he should live life to please himself (his post didn't sound like he had any love for himself) and not worry about it, and that incidentally, living to his OWN greatest potential on his OWN terms for his OWN happiness would be more likely to draw a quality mate than pretty much anything else he could possibly do.

It's not about being rich or being famous. It's about being the most awesome possible YOU that YOU are capable of being, whatever that means. Stop being sad, go do something cool.

Medi: Please keep in mind what I was responding to. It sounded like OP wasn't necessarily trying to meet a human being...just a "young, pretty" woman. If those are a guy's only criteria, then we are breaking it down to specimens and breeders, are we not? Why is it OK for a male to say that he wants a "young, pretty woman" but it's disgusting for a woman to say she wants a man who is good looking, OR wealthy, OR powerful, OR talented, OR funny, OR at least confidant...you see all those "OR"s? A guy doesn't have to have all of 'em...if he's got say one of those traits and he works it, it can really get him where he's trying to go with the chicks. But whether it's nice or not, humans do judge one another. I doubt that you can go to ANY country and live life as a man with no personality, no wit, no self esteem, no money, no talent, just an angry lump of bad attitude and insecurity...and draw the love of pretty young ladies left and right.

I've seen plenty of matches of attractive and unattractive people...where nobody was wealthy...just means that either the attractive one has unusual taste, or else the unattractive one has other appealing qualities.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope by this point that Hombre, and everybody for that matter, has good stuff going on in life. Best wishes!

Last edited by Sonic_Spork; 07-22-2013 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:21 AM
 
50 posts, read 82,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I had to read this a couple times...and edit my response... Because actually, you are quite right in a sense. Many American women are like that. More significantly much of our media trains our ladies to act and think that way. Our society is leaning so far into this realm of entitlement and instant gratification...in many respects, we are really losing our way.

But not all of us. And I'm saying there are ladies here in the US, all around in the world, who would surprise you...but I doubt if you'll find many in the world of online dating. Honestly I don't recommend that for anyone.

My own marriage is a good example. My husband thinks he's horribly ugly, personally I find him to be pretty average looking. But looks aren't that important to me.

I was 18 years old, young and pretty, when I met him. He was not pretty, not fit, not rich, not powerful. He's over a decade older than I am. He's often insecure. But he's got some creative talents, he's reasonably smart and funny, he's a big, strong guy...not necessarily fit...just big/tall. He makes me feel protected. And he is absolutely honest and loyal...I always know I'm safe trusting him and he won't abandon me...he is a good man. I am a better person for having been his wife. I've been faithfully with him for 16 years now. I chose him over pretty men, wealthy men, younger men, rockstars (a few famous ones I'm friends with to this day, but turned down politely in the romance department)...loads of other guys I had a chance with. And a big part of it was just the two of us in the right place and time for things to come together. Neither of us was even looking for it, it just happened.

Every time we've had bumps in the road, if I've kvetched to other ladies about it, they are always saying I should leave him. Clucking hens, squawking on about how if he isn't my "soul mate" I should throw away our life and skip off to chase rainbows. Nonsense. The foolishness of American women in our society...no wonder I get along better with old ladies than women my age.

I'm not "normal women," but I understand them. And if you're shooting for only your typical "pretty, young" American women, well, you need to understand the game and play it. Or don't play it, but hey it is YOUR life. The post is a bit old now, but my point was...dude's got options. He just doesn't want to hear them, because they take effort. It's far easier to sit around saying, "my life stinks and it's everyone else's fault and there's nothing I can do." Kind of a cop-out in my opinion, because there are tons of examples of people with every disadvantage who made good and got whatever it is OP is longing for...but who wants to hear that? That takes...like...work.

Honestly I hate the game, and if I found myself widowed or something, I think I'd be single for the rest of my life. I'd go focus on my art, and myself, I think. But alone or not, I would be HAPPY. No one is obligated to play the game, sometimes the game is stupid...not having to "date" is one of my favorite reasons I'm glad to be married. And ultimately, I do not say that the OP should do anything specifically to impress women. I say he should live life to please himself (his post didn't sound like he had any love for himself) and not worry about it, and that incidentally, living to his OWN greatest potential on his OWN terms for his OWN happiness would be more likely to draw a quality mate than pretty much anything else he could possibly do.

It's not about being rich or being famous. It's about being the most awesome possible YOU that YOU are capable of being, whatever that means. Stop being sad, go do something cool.

Medi: Please keep in mind what I was responding to. It sounded like OP wasn't necessarily trying to meet a human being...just a "young, pretty" woman. If those are a guy's only criteria, then we are breaking it down to specimens and breeders, are we not? Why is it OK for a male to say that he wants a "young, pretty woman" but it's disgusting for a woman to say she wants a man who is good looking, OR wealthy, OR powerful, OR talented, OR funny, OR at least confidant...you see all those "OR"s? A guy doesn't have to have all of 'em...if he's got say one of those traits and he works it, it can really get him where he's trying to go with the chicks. But whether it's nice or not, humans do judge one another. I doubt that you can go to ANY country and live life as a man with no personality, no wit, no self esteem, no money, no talent, just an angry lump of bad attitude and insecurity...and draw the love of pretty young ladies left and right.

I've seen plenty of matches of attractive and unattractive people...where nobody was wealthy...just means that either the attractive one has unusual taste, or else the unattractive one has other appealing qualities.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope by this point that Hombre, and everybody for that matter, has good stuff going on in life. Best wishes!
I see what you are saying, but the reason I avoided advising self-betterment, to my mind, is because giving him advice on 'the game' just fuels his feeling of being trodden-down by the world, of feeling inadequate. To assimilate his point of view, I might feel that I am not so much saying that I want pretty women, more that I am saying, between the lines, that people in my world tend to make distinctions that render a pleasant life and the respect of a good woman unattainable to me, because of my physical looks; that somehow society promotes the idea that simply because I am born destined to be less physically attractive than others, that makes me of less value. And you would be saying that I must 'make it up'. That perspective, from a psychological point of view, actually feeds his insecurity, and also seems unethical for me to promote to a man, particularly who is in a suicidal turmoil.

If I continue to assimilate his viewpoint, 'pretty young women' (the ones I place on pedestals high above myself in terms of social standing) believe they deserve nothing short of spectacular, simply because they are born with appealing bone structure. So I become resigned in a position where society does not afford my the same 'right to be loved', as those women have. All because the hand of God, or genetics, or whatever else, had me born without physical qualities on par with those women.

And when we see it like that, it does seem rather cruel. Your first few paragraphs would indicate that you understand the concept of the insecurity and hopelessness of an under-average person, for which I was refreshed to read, but your final, bottom-of-the-line point is to indicate that he is inadequate and needs to become more, although you might not see it as that. But certainly, in his shoes, I would. To flip your questions of morality into that mould, is it fair, or ethical, for someone who is born beautiful, to feel that they deserve everything on the back of that beauty? Then to, by association with the norm, demean the people who were not so genetically gifted by means of contributing to a society that will not look further than skin? That is the OP's turmoil. Become it for a second.

You are a pretty woman, and your husband is an under-average looking, but talented man. Imagine he were not in the right place at the right time and his insecurities came to have form, in the absence of a wife and marriage. How different would he be? How much of his greatness is inspired by your belief in him and your affection for him?

The OP is not saying, 'I have no personality or quality', he is saying that his experience has shown him that the world doesn't seem to make the effort to look beyond his skin and find out what's beneath it. And when we think deeply upon it, for a man who is rejected outrightly by many women in this day and age, is it fair to say to him 'you need to become better?' IS it an ethical psychological seed to plant that he is socially responsible for 'making up' for his own genetics, and then by proxy, also responsible for changing the way society treats him? That, for me, is like saying 'it's your fault that the random woman over there attacked you because you are ugly, which is also your fault', when in reality there is no phsyical or mental way that he can be responsible for the actions, reactions, cognitions or worldviews of others. This is why I see him a victim rather than someone who is willingly passive.

What if 'Pretty women' is only a focus of his powerlessness, more accurately a metaphor for everything that he sees as somehow better than him, above him in terms of social standing or in terms of power or control? I can relate to that and I know that sometimes, relating is all we need when we feel as though the world doesn't want to relate to us, or with us, when we are lonely and rejected.

Perhaps the OP is not physically attractive, but certainly he seems perceptive, intelligent, aware of the society he lives in and has his disagreements with its practices. It isn't solely a matter of the practical steps that he can take to get what he tells us he wants, it is deeper than that. It is in fact that this man sees a genuine flaw with the world that he is forced to be part of. That is something that isn't easily remedied, and certainly not by advising him into conforming to the standards of the part of society that he disagrees with. This is a man who would make a point of not conforming to those standards because they are morally inept. While you might take the logical stance that this man only wants pretty women, I see 'pretty women' simply as a focus of his disagreements with the practices that those who have power in society promote.

I envisage this guy to be moral, independent, sure of his viewpoint, often misunderstood and definitely apart from the social cruelties he is on here addressing. I would imagine the great disappointment for him is that that people don't take the time to look deep enough to read these things. They see 'a bitter, lonely guy with nothing attractive about him', rather than 'someone who thinks besides the box'.

Last edited by Medi; 07-23-2013 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,390 posts, read 14,661,936 times
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You make very interesting points! Thank you for the well thought out post. I really do appreciate it.

I suppose that part of our disconnect too is that I speak from a place of irritation with the entitlement of American society. Pretty people who think they are entitled to anything just based on looks are at least as repellant to me as people who perceive themselves to be unattractive, and retreat into a hole to nurture anger and resentment at a world that denies them things...instead of trying to make anything of their own potential. Honestly I think that the world of computerized interactions and online dating is sometimes unhealthy in that regard. For instance, I know that I can sit for a whole weekend on Facebook and ignore and procrastinate the many real-life things that need doing in my world. And then grumble and grouse about how my family doesn't do their share, so there is a pile of work...or I can simply apply myself to the matter and take care of business myself. It is my impression that some of the more vitriolic posters on here who are down on themselves (it's worse in Relationships from what I recall...I finally got tired of even posting there) they feed the emotions engendered by failure when they didn't give themselves the best odds to succeed in the first place.

I don't like victimhood. I've been through plenty in life that I could claim myself a victim over...but I don't believe that to be empowering. I prefer to bounce it back on myself and then, instead of beating my self esteem down over it, ask myself what to do now, next, or tomorrow...I do believe that, particularly in more developed nations and societies, we all have opportunities to make more of ourselves. And I'm always challenging myself in that direction. I think that life, to some degree, is what you make it.

I'm not saying anyone should compensate for a lack in their appearance. I'm saying they should become something amazing regardless of that. And I believe in you, and I believe in him, and I believe in anyone...who is willing to give it whatever they've got.

The whole "beautiful people" celebrity culture is really disgusting to me actually. It's harmful to so many people in so many ways, and downright parasitic to society. I'm far more interested in what a person DOES, and thinks, and says and likes...than in what they were born.

The other bit of personal pique that drives some of my commentary is that of an intellectual female. I really, really don't want to be judged on my looks, even though they're alright (far from flawless, but generally acceptable.) I've wondered, in fact, must a woman grow old, or cover her face, or scar herself, in order to be taken seriously? Life with a man who is forever telling me I'm beautiful but doesn't care much about my character (except insofar as it keeps me faithful to him) has got me thinking that I don't deserve friendship, don't deserve to be liked for who I am, only to be used....as a healthy breeder, as it were, with a symmetrical face. I'm told that men, in general, don't care about much other than how a woman looks and whether they can "have" her, and any male friend should be treated with utmost suspicion. And let to fester, that line of thinking erodes my self worth a LOT. Because you know what? I might look alright now. But we all get old. It's the equivalent of being told that unless I go the route of plastic surgery, dying my hair, keeping up the pretty, I will be worthless to my mate...because looks are oh, so important...to everyone but me, apparently.

But then I remember all of the male friends I have who treat me with respect, as a person, and don't try to take advantage...and realize that most of this angst comes straight from the insecurities of my husband. And then I'm sad all over again.

One could read this and say, "Oh, listen to the pretty person whine about her terrible life. What a joke." But the point is...we all have our insecurities. We all have the walls we've built, that we have to knock down or climb over. Beauty fades away, for all of us, in time. If you're a great person, if you're being everything you can be and unlocking your own potential, you're way ahead of all the pretty people, who after all...will get old and die just like everyone else...and be remembered far less when they're gone than those who thought and said interesting things and touched lives and made a difference in the world.

Pretty is as pretty does.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
You make very interesting points! Thank you for the well thought out post. I really do appreciate it.

I suppose that part of our disconnect too is that I speak from a place of irritation with the entitlement of American society. Pretty people who think they are entitled to anything just based on looks are at least as repellant to me as people who perceive themselves to be unattractive, and retreat into a hole to nurture anger and resentment at a world that denies them things...instead of trying to make anything of their own potential. Honestly I think that the world of computerized interactions and online dating is sometimes unhealthy in that regard. For instance, I know that I can sit for a whole weekend on Facebook and ignore and procrastinate the many real-life things that need doing in my world. And then grumble and grouse about how my family doesn't do their share, so there is a pile of work...or I can simply apply myself to the matter and take care of business myself. It is my impression that some of the more vitriolic posters on here who are down on themselves (it's worse in Relationships from what I recall...I finally got tired of even posting there) they feed the emotions engendered by failure when they didn't give themselves the best odds to succeed in the first place.

I don't like victimhood. I've been through plenty in life that I could claim myself a victim over...but I don't believe that to be empowering. I prefer to bounce it back on myself and then, instead of beating my self esteem down over it, ask myself what to do now, next, or tomorrow...I do believe that, particularly in more developed nations and societies, we all have opportunities to make more of ourselves. And I'm always challenging myself in that direction. I think that life, to some degree, is what you make it.

I'm not saying anyone should compensate for a lack in their appearance. I'm saying they should become something amazing regardless of that. And I believe in you, and I believe in him, and I believe in anyone...who is willing to give it whatever they've got.

The whole "beautiful people" celebrity culture is really disgusting to me actually. It's harmful to so many people in so many ways, and downright parasitic to society. I'm far more interested in what a person DOES, and thinks, and says and likes...than in what they were born.

The other bit of personal pique that drives some of my commentary is that of an intellectual female. I really, really don't want to be judged on my looks, even though they're alright (far from flawless, but generally acceptable.) I've wondered, in fact, must a woman grow old, or cover her face, or scar herself, in order to be taken seriously? Life with a man who is forever telling me I'm beautiful but doesn't care much about my character (except insofar as it keeps me faithful to him) has got me thinking that I don't deserve friendship, don't deserve to be liked for who I am, only to be used....as a healthy breeder, as it were, with a symmetrical face. I'm told that men, in general, don't care about much other than how a woman looks and whether they can "have" her, and any male friend should be treated with utmost suspicion. And let to fester, that line of thinking erodes my self worth a LOT. Because you know what? I might look alright now. But we all get old. It's the equivalent of being told that unless I go the route of plastic surgery, dying my hair, keeping up the pretty, I will be worthless to my mate...because looks are oh, so important...to everyone but me, apparently.

But then I remember all of the male friends I have who treat me with respect, as a person, and don't try to take advantage...and realize that most of this angst comes straight from the insecurities of my husband. And then I'm sad all over again.

One could read this and say, "Oh, listen to the pretty person whine about her terrible life. What a joke." But the point is...we all have our insecurities. We all have the walls we've built, that we have to knock down or climb over. Beauty fades away, for all of us, in time. If you're a great person, if you're being everything you can be and unlocking your own potential, you're way ahead of all the pretty people, who after all...will get old and die just like everyone else...and be remembered far less when they're gone than those who thought and said interesting things and touched lives and made a difference in the world.

Pretty is as pretty does.
Well that's fair enough that you don't want to be judged on your looks, but to assimilate your worldview, I might say 'well make the best of it. It is what it is. You ARE judged on them'. That isn't a nice thing to be told, yet here we are. You and the OP being told to suck it up. See my point? Also remember that your opportunities with others are likely to be (at a comparative assessment, (I apologize)) much more bountiful than the OP's, simply BECAUSE of your physical appeal. And as much as I agree with making the best of ones gifts and potentials, there are moments, as with all humans, that we become downtrodden by the disadvantages that those around us create for us. Especially when it's to do with things out of a person's control, it can become overwhelming. I'm only here to understand how that might feel, for the OP and now for you.

Last edited by Medi; 07-24-2013 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:16 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by Medi View Post
To be fair, this is the flipside on the whole thing, to show how different I tend to think from *most* women in my generation.

I do not have a type of woman. The only woman that I can't see myself with is one who doesn't take care of her body to some degree, ie. lets herself become really overweight. I just can't handle it. I think to myself 'surely there's no reason to let yourself get like that'. That's my shallow secret but it's the only one that I have.

On any other level I really enjoy women's company. I find all different types of women attractive but my problem is that I have had a rough ride in that department and I often find women to be much more irreverent and dis-compassionate than I am towards other people.

For instance, if I meet a woman who has had a hard life, I would all be all the more sympathetic and understanding of her, and make more effort to relate to her because really, when someone has been made to feel less, a lot of the time simply having a person on their level can be all the difference. But I find that women separate the romantic and the platonic, whereas in my mind, I see them as great co-existent qualities in a relationship. So what I get is that my 'flaws' become issues that someone can't deal with because for some unkown reason they have it in their heads that guys can't ever have insecurities or issues with themselves. These things I'm talking about aren't great, all-encompassing complexes that ruin relationships, they are just general guy things like having a hard time opening up and being a little too restrained at times.

And I also find women my age to have egos far bigger than mens', contrary to the common belief about men and women. And I also find women my age to be quite selfish and 'princessy', which really grinds my gears.

So I mean, for your own perspective, OP, look at yourself and ask 'what do you expect from others and how does that stack up against how you behave toward other people?'

For me, I expect less than what I'm willing to give.
What is your age? I don't know any women with big egos. And I know women across a broad spectrum of ages.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
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What is your age? I don't know any women with big egos. And I know women across a broad spectrum of ages.
Well damn. Who knows a good way to clean the a keyboard covered in Diet Coke?
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:36 AM
 
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What is your age? I don't know any women with big egos. And I know women across a broad spectrum of ages.
You must live in a very nice place then, surrounded by lovely women. I'm twenty-two.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:41 AM
 
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Do you groom? Do you exercise? Most of the time, there is always a way to look attractive to other folks.

Believe me, NO man or woman is ugly to EVERYONE. We've all heard this played out quote dozens of times, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
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Old 03-16-2014, 06:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
You make very interesting points! Thank you for the well thought out post. I really do appreciate it.

I suppose that part of our disconnect too is that I speak from a place of irritation with the entitlement of American society. Pretty people who think they are entitled to anything just based on looks are at least as repellant to me as people who perceive themselves to be unattractive, and retreat into a hole to nurture anger and resentment at a world that denies them things...instead of trying to make anything of their own potential. Honestly I think that the world of computerized interactions and online dating is sometimes unhealthy in that regard. For instance, I know that I can sit for a whole weekend on Facebook and ignore and procrastinate the many real-life things that need doing in my world. And then grumble and grouse about how my family doesn't do their share, so there is a pile of work...or I can simply apply myself to the matter and take care of business myself. It is my impression that some of the more vitriolic posters on here who are down on themselves (it's worse in Relationships from what I recall...I finally got tired of even posting there) they feed the emotions engendered by failure when they didn't give themselves the best odds to succeed in the first place.

I don't like victimhood. I've been through plenty in life that I could claim myself a victim over...but I don't believe that to be empowering. I prefer to bounce it back on myself and then, instead of beating my self esteem down over it, ask myself what to do now, next, or tomorrow...I do believe that, particularly in more developed nations and societies, we all have opportunities to make more of ourselves. And I'm always challenging myself in that direction. I think that life, to some degree, is what you make it.

I'm not saying anyone should compensate for a lack in their appearance. I'm saying they should become something amazing regardless of that. And I believe in you, and I believe in him, and I believe in anyone...who is willing to give it whatever they've got.

The whole "beautiful people" celebrity culture is really disgusting to me actually. It's harmful to so many people in so many ways, and downright parasitic to society. I'm far more interested in what a person DOES, and thinks, and says and likes...than in what they were born.

The other bit of personal pique that drives some of my commentary is that of an intellectual female. I really, really don't want to be judged on my looks, even though they're alright (far from flawless, but generally acceptable.) I've wondered, in fact, must a woman grow old, or cover her face, or scar herself, in order to be taken seriously? Life with a man who is forever telling me I'm beautiful but doesn't care much about my character (except insofar as it keeps me faithful to him) has got me thinking that I don't deserve friendship, don't deserve to be liked for who I am, only to be used....as a healthy breeder, as it were, with a symmetrical face. I'm told that men, in general, don't care about much other than how a woman looks and whether they can "have" her, and any male friend should be treated with utmost suspicion. And let to fester, that line of thinking erodes my self worth a LOT. Because you know what? I might look alright now. But we all get old. It's the equivalent of being told that unless I go the route of plastic surgery, dying my hair, keeping up the pretty, I will be worthless to my mate...because looks are oh, so important...to everyone but me, apparently.

But then I remember all of the male friends I have who treat me with respect, as a person, and don't try to take advantage...and realize that most of this angst comes straight from the insecurities of my husband. And then I'm sad all over again.

One could read this and say, "Oh, listen to the pretty person whine about her terrible life. What a joke." But the point is...we all have our insecurities. We all have the walls we've built, that we have to knock down or climb over. Beauty fades away, for all of us, in time. If you're a great person, if you're being everything you can be and unlocking your own potential, you're way ahead of all the pretty people, who after all...will get old and die just like everyone else...and be remembered far less when they're gone than those who thought and said interesting things and touched lives and made a difference in the world.

Pretty is as pretty does.
This is a really old post, but I came on here for the first time in nearly a year and re-read this. Such an great kind of viewpoint when I look at it again.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:18 AM
 
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OP---I don't know if you are as ugly as you say. However, if you truly believe that you are and that it is affecting your social life, take a look at this dating website:

The Ugly Bug Ball – THE ORIGINAL UGLY DATING SITE
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