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Anecdotally (and don't take this the wrong way; I don't know you), but the single guys I know IRL who are older 30's-40's single, and don't like women their age, usually have some issues.
I could see not sleeping with that person, and it's probably a bad idea for persons over 21 to date persons in high school, but there are plenty of healthy relationships between persons out of high school, eighteen or nineteen or so, and persons...maybe, 23, or 24.
Erm, the whole point of this thread is that presumably people well under 18 (16 or even younger) should legally be able to consent to sex.
I don't personally have a problem with 18-year-olds dating 20somethings; 18-year-olds are legally adults and can legally call all their own shots, they are out of the confines of high school and have certain legal abilities and rights, as well as certain mental, emotional and physical development. So you're just confirming that. I appreciate it, thank you.
Next you'll be telling me sex with children should be ok too because the children "enjoy it".
You sound exactly like a pedophile, who also justify their attraction to age inappropriate individuals.
The point is, society has decided both of the above are "ew", and thus, made them illegal.
I don't know why you believe that the laws should suddenly be changed based merely on your own opinion or some new anthropological research, when the laws have been developed and refined over the centuries to protect the vulnerable. We had no laws at all in this regard except moral laws, since humans crawled out of the swamp. Morality used to be enough. No longer.
*The vulnerable being, very young people, and your pets/farm animals.
Children (biological definition) having sex is actually pretty harmful to the child. Bestiality is also legal is some countries and even in some states in the US I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryFisher
I find it a tad bit disturbing that some people on here are trying to justify having sex with minors.
Legal adulthood like the Age of Consent varies from place to place. 16 is the age of majority in places like Scotland and Cuba. So if I were to have sex with a 16 year old Scottish or Cuban girl would it be okay in their book? Just asking. I mean they aren't minors anymore at that age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Erm, the whole point of this thread is that presumably people well under 18 (16 or even younger) should legally be able to consent to sex.
Yeah, sex. Sex doesn't necessarily involve dating and I never said anything about people under 16. There are also 16 year olds who finish High School.
Quote:
I don't personally have a problem with 18-year-olds dating 20somethings; 18-year-olds are legally adults and can legally call all their own shots, they are out of the confines of high school and have certain legal abilities and rights, as well as certain mental, emotional and physical development. So you're just confirming that. I appreciate it, thank you.
Few of flaws with that.
1.Countries like Japan has the legal adult at 20. In the US the age of majority is higher in states like Alabama (19) Mississippi (21) Nebraska (19 or upon marriage) and Puerto Rico(21). So in these cases a 18 year old not have certain legal abilities and rights.
2. As for the development between a 18 year old and a 20-something year old...read the second quote in the OP.
Quote:
By age 16, adolescents’ general cognitive abilities
are essentially indistinguishable from those of adults, but
adolescents’ psychosocial functioning, even at the age of
18, is significantly less mature than that of individuals in
their mid-20s.
3. There are people who finish high school late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar
I think 18 is fine.
I work with teens and most of them aren't really mentally mature (or act like it) until about 17-18 (or until they are Seniors).
Yes, there are some mature 15-16 year olds, but they are in the minority. Most by that age are still acting like middle schoolers.
My question is, if you're older than, say, 21, why would you want to date someone in high school? Just because they are attractive and fertile?
In any case the OP quoted:
Sex is one of, if not the most emotional things a person can do. It isn't a legal matter or research study.
Sure this one study might have suggested, that at 16, teens are as smart as their adolescent counterparts, but they aren't as emotionally developed or have the experience or knowledge to deal with an older partner (or older anyone for that matter).
Teens should be teens and have relationships, like this, with teens and people around their age. I think going through the awkwardness is a part of life and to supplant that with an older person, just seems weird because of how our current society has drifted away from that.
Age of consent is not just about minors consenting to sex with adults but sexual acts in general. It is still technically illegal for two ten years to have sex with each other.
Quote:
So:
1. I don't think this study supports dropping the age to 16 (as it wasn't the point of the study anyway).
2. Why would a person who is older want to date a teenager?
3. Even if some teens are mature enough, not all are.
4. Even though 18 seems arbitrary, it is a good cutoff point that usually coincides with other "adult" activities; and the end of High School
6. Keeping the age at 18 (in a perfect world) allows for these years to not only remain maturation years, but also gives the teen enough time to make their own decisions with knowledge hopefully provided to them; by their parents/school whatever.
A "unbiased" source.
1. I never said that study said anything about the age of consent. But about cognitive abilities which is relevant to the AOC issue since it basically about a person being competent enough to consent to sex. Placing it at 16 resolves the whole competence issue because a major part of your brain is fully matures at that age as oppose to 18 which every little happens.
2. You are assuming that all sex involves relationships. We are talking about consent to sexual acts which would also includes hook-ups/one-night-stands and things of that sort.
3. Not all 18 years are mature either. As a matter of fact teens at 18 are no where near as mature as people in their mid-20s as the study has mentioned.
4. What about people who finish High school early or late? I know people who finished as early at 16(and 17) and some as late as 19. So should that 16 year old be allow to consent and that 19 year old shouldn't since the former is finished with school and the latter isn't? There are also places where the age of majority is higher or lower than 18 ( as low as 14 and as high as 21). It is arbitrary.
5. 18 as the AOC is extremely rare even in the US. So what do you mean by "keeping it at 18"? I even mentioned this in the OP. File:Age of Consent - Global.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia File:Age of Consent - North America.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The APA article you are citing (which btw has a virus and should not be downloaded) is about the juvenile death penalty.
I know what's it about. Read my reply above this quote at number 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Hey, so you better hit it while it's hot, right? Who cares if she ends up traumatized? Everybody rush into that window of fertility! Such a cogent argument.
How do you get that idea in my post? Where did I say that they should have a baby at that age?
Last edited by DevilMayhem666; 12-18-2012 at 06:27 AM..
Well, two of you here who keep "repping" me and PMing me with links to posts on here just to be certain I see them (even though they really don't tell me anything I haven't addressed), and even outright PMing "Please answer this post!" in semi-desperation, so I've pretty much confirmed what I really already knew: this thread is just for attention. It's actually sort of a relief to know that, I wouldn't want to think men pushing 40 really want to smash with 16-or-youngers.
Some people are desperately lonely, I get that. Peace out, I feel bad for you two.
Okay...I'm leaning over to the side that we should not lower the age of consent to 16, and might even be open to raising it over 18, due to the potential harm to the growing girl...because childhood has been extending in our culture.
Should we have differing ages of consent for men and women though? Perhaps for women it's 18 or even 21, and for men it's 16? I really don't see most 16 year old girls desiring to sleep with a 30 year old man, in all likelyhood.
However, a 16 year old male has a considerably greater likelyhood of desiring to sleep with a 30 year old woman, provided she is decent looking.
Erm, the whole point of this thread is that presumably people well under 18 (16 or even younger) should legally be able to consent to sex.
I don't personally have a problem with 18-year-olds dating 20somethings; 18-year-olds are legally adults and can legally call all their own shots, they are out of the confines of high school and have certain legal abilities and rights, as well as certain mental, emotional and physical development. So you're just confirming that. I appreciate it, thank you.
That post was meant specifically as a response to the person whose words I'd quoted, not to the rest of the thread. I agree completely with everything he stated in his following posts, by the way.
Okay...I'm leaning over to the side that we should not lower the age of consent to 16, and might even be open to raising it over 18, due to the potential harm to the growing girl...because childhood has been extending in our culture.
Should we have differing ages of consent for men and women though? Perhaps for women it's 18 or even 20, and for men it's 16? I really don't see most 16 year old girls desiring to sleep with a 30 year old man, in all likelyhood.
However, a 16 year old male has a considerably greater likelyhood of desiring to sleep with a 30 year old woman, provided she is decent looking.
Yeah, there is a significant psychosocial maturity difference between 17-year-olds and those 22...
Making the AOC 22 is not going to happening in too many countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Well, two of you here who keep "repping" me and PMing me with links to posts on here just to be certain I see them (even though they really don't tell me anything I haven't addressed), and even outright PMing "Please answer this post!" in semi-desperation, so I've pretty much confirmed what I really already knew: this thread is just for attention. It's actually sort of a relief to know that, I wouldn't want to think men pushing 40 really want to smash with 16-or-youngers.
Some people are desperately lonely, I get that. Peace out, I feel bad for you two.
Copping-out? I just love debating. I'm no where near my 40s (22 years old) and live in Jersey. And it is perfectly legal in my state for me to smash a 16 year old.
Last edited by DevilMayhem666; 12-18-2012 at 09:51 AM..
Yeah, there is a significant psychosocial maturity difference between 17-year-olds and those 22... making the AOC 22 is not going to happening in too many countries.
I'm 22 years old and live in Jersey. And it is perfectly legal in my state for me to smash a 16 year old.
In my state of Missouri, until you're age 21 (or 22?), you can legally sleep with a girl down to the age of 14, I believe...although 14 seems kinda disturbing for a 20 year old guy to sleeping with in modern society....
In another state, so I've heard, the age of consent is 16, but if two fifteen year olds sleep with eachother, they are each guilty of statutory rape.
I like my state's way better.
Make it so the younger people can sleep with eachother...just, we don't need a bunch of forty year old men hitting on our sixteen year old daughters.
Also, of course, the idea that an 18 year old should go to jail for sleeping with a 17 year old is utter lunacy. That part should be changed in all cases, or judges should be show be able to judge whether or not it's a crime and potentially show leniency.
It isn't many nations that have ages of consent over 18, but in Tunisia it's 20, and in Cameroon it's 21.
The UN had a campaign in the 90's about letting teen girls finish their childhood so they can mature emotionally and psychologically, before the sexual predation begins. Girls need a safe space in which to explore their developing identities and values, to get an education, and to develop discernment and healthy self-esteem. That's not going to happen if older relatives, friends of relatives, or community members are leering at them, or worse, molesting them or selling them into slavery. The trend worldwide is for girls and women to acquire secondary education, and go on to university. This is the trend even in poor communities in the developing world. Studies show that generally, the higher the level of education, the higher the age of marriage and first sexual experience. Adolescence is becoming prolonged, as a global phenomenon.
I agree with much of what you're saying here, and with the global efforts to advance the educational and developmental needs of girls and young women.
However, the feminist politics mixed into your post, seem to be suggestive of something deeper. Consider your first sentence in the post:
"The UN had a campaign in the 90's about letting teen girls finish their childhood so they can mature emotionally and psychologically, before the sexual predation begins. "
Before the sexual predation begins! Even after teen girls have "finished their childhood" and "matured emotionally and psychologically" you're statement is arguing that heterosexual interaction is nothing more than a process of predation--assumably with the male in the role of predator and the female in the role of prey. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about attaching political baggage to what should be a straitforward issue.
In my state of Missouri, until you're age 21 (or 22?), you can legally sleep with a girl down to the age of 14, I believe...although 14 seems kinda disturbing for a 20 year old guy to sleeping with in modern society....
In another state, so I've heard, the age of consent is 16, but if two fifteen year olds sleep with each other, they are each guilty of statutory rape.
I like my state's way better.
Make it so the younger people can sleep with each other...just, we don't need a bunch of forty year old men hitting on our sixteen year old daughters.
Also, of course, the idea that an 18 year old should go to jail for sleeping with a 17 year old is utter lunacy. That part should be changed in all cases, or judges should be show be able to judge whether or not it's a crime and potentially show leniency.
It isn't many nations that have ages of consent over 18, but in Tunisia it's 20, and in Cameroon it's 21.
15 is way too young to be having sex with anyone in my eyes but I wouldn't throw them in jail.
Most 16 years olds are minors so the parent can always forbid such relationships. Unless they are emancipated or the age of majority is 16 like in Scotland and Cuba. Making the age of consent higher than the driving age seems nonsensical in my eyes.
Last edited by DevilMayhem666; 12-18-2012 at 09:54 AM..
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