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Because society has historically been very patriarchal and women have been deemed inferior. The notion of a guy engaging in relations with another guy has often been viewed as weak or feminine, which challenges the patriarchal structure.
In my experience, guys who are repulsed by other guys to a severe degree are subconsciously insecure with their own sexuality or don't have much experience with gays. All the straight guys I know are absolutely unphased by the idea of relations between guys. It may not be something they seek out or would generally engage in themselves, but it's not a big deal to them.
Male nudity or relaxed friendships with homosexual or heterosexual males...that's probably not something most confident males will get nervous about. Most men I've known (They've almost all been strait) would probably view an intimate romantic physical relationship with a guy as equally desirable as an intimate relationship with a four hundred pound woman with acne and facial hair...maybe be a little fearful. That's perfectly healthy for some people (probably most men I've known). It might or might not be a view they're born with, so much as learned from society, but it feels perfectly healthy (to me). Confident males can feel like that (like me). I've never been in an intimate relationship with anyone, male or female, but I still know I'm heterosexual. I'm sometimes more relaxed around gay men than I am around strait men. The gay men seemed less competitive somehow, easing tension.
But yes...if someone is nervous around homosexuals just because they are homosexuals, or other heterosexual men, or male nudity (beyond a minute ick factor), I could definitely see that as either due to immaturity or insecurity.
The ick factor regarding intimate physical relationships between males, however slight, I think is much too widespread for it to be entirely artificial. I think most strait men definitely feel that, and it won't go away no matter how confident they are. Again, I could see sleeping in the same bed with a gay guy, who knows I'm not gay, due to lack of space, and not being nervous...but that's quite different from something intimate. If it were something intimate...I'd go sprinting away like the Roadrunner from Wile E. Coyote.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone
Male nudity or relaxed friendships with homosexual or heterosexual males...that's probably not something most confident males will get nervous about. Most men I've known (They've almost all been strait) would probably view an intimate romantic physical relationship with a guy as equally desirable as an intimate relationship with a four hundred pound woman with acne and facial hair...maybe be a little fearful. That's perfectly healthy for some people (probably most men I've known). It might or might not be a view they're born with, so much as learned from society, but it feels perfectly healthy (to me). Confident males can feel like that (like me). I've never been in an intimate relationship with anyone, male or female, but I still know I'm heterosexual. I'm sometimes more relaxed around gay men than I am around strait men. The gay men seemed less competitive somehow, easing tension.
But yes...if someone is nervous around homosexuals just because they are homosexuals, or other heterosexual men, or male nudity (beyond a minute ick factor), I could definitely see that as either due to immaturity or insecurity.
The ick factor regarding intimate physical relationships between males, however slight, I think is much too widespread for it to be entirely artificial. I think most strait men definitely feel that, and it won't go away no matter how confident they are. Again, I could see sleeping in the same bed with a gay guy, who knows I'm not gay, due to lack of space, and not being nervous...but that's quite different from something intimate. If it were something intimate...I'd go sprinting away like the Roadrunner from Wile E. Coyote.
I think social conditioning can turn indifference into the 'ick' factor, or just the 'weird' factor. In the 80s, for instance, more women seemed grossed out by lesbianism but now many straight women kiss others for show. I remember even in school most girls though girls kissing girls was gross but now it's popular and 'hot'. Thus demonstrates the power of social conditioning. It may be impossible for us to imagine now, but if our society said guys kissing guys was hot and girls were turned on by it we'd think differently about it.
Then aren't gay men really transsexuals, or at least less pronounced transexuals?
No. A transsexual is one whose brain is entirely one gender, and body is the opposite. Transsexuality deals with gender identity, how one views themselves as either male or female. Gay men are still men and still identify as men. But certain key structures are feminized to be like that of the opposite sex, thus leading to attractions/emotions etc. to mimic those of straight women. Gay men still view themselves as men. They aren't women trapped in a man's body.
I think social conditioning can turn indifference into the 'ick' factor, or just the 'weird' factor. In the 80s, for instance, more women seemed grossed out by lesbianism but now many straight women kiss others for show. I remember even in school most girls though girls kissing girls was gross but now it's popular and 'hot'. Thus demonstrates the power of social conditioning. It may be impossible for us to imagine now, but if our society said guys kissing guys was hot and girls were turned on by it we'd think differently about it.
I'm sure that's true in many cases. I had a psychology teacher who said there is no strict anti-incest urge. It's societal conditioning. Still, there's a lot of, "Ick" factor relating to that.
NOT COMPARING INCEST TO HOMOSEXUALITY one results in awkwardness between siblings who might spend their lives in contact with one another and three-eyed offspring, and the other does not.
I'd bet a lot of that societal conditioning feels very real though, even if it's only temporary.
I think there are certainly men out there who fit option #5. They are a bit perverted and devious, but I don't think they're gay. Some may be bisexual, if there truly is such a thing (remember, the act alone is not necessarily indicative of ones orientation). It seems like gay men are a bit repulsed by women sexually, especially by vaginas, which is why I'd think straight men are more likely to fit option #5.
Something I wonder about gay males is if they get aroused at all by seeing all-female porn.
Please explain what you mean by "if there truly is such a thing"... are you suggesting that bisexuality is only a phase or a state of confusion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
Homosexuality isn't a choice, but sexuality exists on a spectrum. If we're going to talk strictly biological, only a minority of humans are 100% in either direction. Most fall on the bisexual spectrum. A homosexual man having some attraction to women doesn't make it a choice.
Yep, this, thank you.
I knew a gay guy that hit on me and tried to pursue dating me (a female) and later told me that in all his life (he was in his 30s) he had never felt any romantic or sexual attraction to a female prior to that point. Stuff happens. Nothing happened with us and we remained great friends but he was someone who had ID'd as gay for his entire life and had always been with men. He was quite amazed by his feelings for me.
I personally don't believe sexuality is 100% inborn. I think to some extent it's even stretchable. I don't deny that many are born with a strong tendency in one way, but I think once they realise 'I'm gay' they begin to think that they're gay and gays should behave a certain way, so being repulsed by female sexual organs is part of that. Yet paradoxically, they fawn over strong female role models and anything else female, except the sexuality. They relate when Barbra Streisand sings about lost love, yet would cringe if she alluded to female sexuality.
This is probably the most interesting thing I have found in every human being. You sound like a smart, well adjusted guy and I wont lie tend to do this also. Generalize--stereotype. You may not know it but their are a LOT of gay men (including myself but my sexuality boarders at times) who are not into anything related that is bolded. Most of the ones I know are FAR from that Barbra Streisand 'love all women--as a friend' personality--its practically alien and yet its a sigma you must live with. I notice that I tend to do the 'Everyone in my group are individuals and the outsiders are ''all alike'' make up when speaking of others also.
Sorry I did not read the entire thread but just gonna say it because I know someone will mention it....It aint a choice brother. You could never ask someone to do something you yourself could not do.
Oh ya and as far as the whole 'ick its a penis/vagin' I think that's an individuals insecurities showing.
I belive I could remember the exact moment I 'grew up'. I belive I was around 16 and (long story short) I get a look at my cousins vagin she then just sits their for a second and says "Well if he hasnt seen one by now then iunno what to tell em" Funny she was right--I had lost my virginity by 14 and after hearing that sentence I guess you can say the thrill was gone lol.
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