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Old 08-17-2014, 11:34 AM
 
1,350 posts, read 2,623,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre_Corriendo View Post
Nice try as to the reason for the spike in men's suicide in the 60's, but alas, wrong.

The primary reasons are two-fold, with both reasons having to do with the social turbulence and strife that permeated that decade.

1--Vietnam. We lost almost 60,000 in combat during the Vietnam war, but what a lot of people don't know is that probably four times that amount who were egregiously psychologically damaged in that war committed suicide over the course of the following three decades, with the peak coming in the late-60s & the 70s.

2--Drugs. We all know about the hippie movement; the "tune in, turn on, and drop out" pop psychology of Tim Leary. Drug use was prevalent of course with both sexes, but men have always and will always outnumber women when it comes to killing themselves with drugs and/or alcohol. Too, I'm guessing that some of these so-called "suicides" mentioned in the survey chart are including unintentional overdoses for young men. But they still count.

Lastly, too bad the graph stops at the year 2000, just before we entered out ill-conceived 10-year war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Because I'm guessing had the chart continued up until 2012 or so, that we would see a similar spike for males. I am a veteran and work with the VA on occasion and am aware that, just as with Vietnam, an amazing proportion of young men are committing suicide upon returning home from the Middle East.
1) Do we know for certain that most of the male suicides in the ensuing decades past the Vietnam war were veterans of that war? This would be the surest way of proving your claim in #1. I don't doubt that much psychological damage was done to combat veterans, of course.

2) I don't think the hippie movement was a major contributor to suicide. The hippie movement involved a lot of psychedelic drugs (LSD, DMT etc) and it's almost impossible for someone to die of an overdose from a psychedelic. The harder drugs like heroin, cocaine (it's various forms) came a bit later, I think.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:03 PM
 
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Because aresholes make new r-tarded laws that fubars society and our way of life as we know it.



People commit suicide because they can find no way out. I could think of millions of things to do before doing that.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:45 PM
 
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I think it's because more males are soldiers, and there is a higher rate of PTSD.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,876 posts, read 14,571,170 times
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I think there is a lot of depressive illness in our society. Females seem to be more willing to pursue treatment than males, probably because they generally are more willing and able to talk about their problems than men, who seem to place a lot of store in being stoic and appearing in control. But whether or not treatment is sought, for many reasons (which may even be chemical in nature), men tend to express their depression more the form of outward-directed anger than women do. Women are more inclined to feel sad and become introverted while many men experience depression wanting to lash out at whatever or whomever they blame for how they feel. This circumstance is possibly a result of testosterone vs. estrogen and how those hormones interact with the chemical imbalances that go hand-in-hand with depression.

Because depression is commonly thought of as the equivalent of "sad and blue" by the public, many severely depressed men are not directed to treatment even if they might be willing to consider it. In lieu of help, they act out. This can take the forms of abusing alcohol or drugs; engaging other thought-obliterating behaviors like porn addiction, anonymous sex, gambling, etc., or indulging in rage-filled actions like spousal/child abuse, property destruction, or even dangerous driving habits. When these tangible actions fail to provide an outlet for how bad internally a depressed man feels, a suicide attempt sometimes follows.

Note that even when women do commit suicide, which they commit at a rate of about 65% less often than men, they are likely to choose the least violent, less effective method: drugs. Research published in the Journal of Affective Disorders states, "Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and firearms. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing." Men are also more inclined to take others out with them. An extensive study published in the Journal of Forensic Medicine says, "In the U.S. the overwhelming number of cases [of murder-suicide] are male-on-female."
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElysianEagle View Post
1) Do we know for certain that most of the male suicides in the ensuing decades past the Vietnam war were veterans of that war? This would be the surest way of proving your claim in #1. I don't doubt that much psychological damage was done to combat veterans, of course.

2) I don't think the hippie movement was a major contributor to suicide. The hippie movement involved a lot of psychedelic drugs (LSD, DMT etc) and it's almost impossible for someone to die of an overdose from a psychedelic. The harder drugs like heroin, cocaine (it's various forms) came a bit later, I think.

Like this poster, i do not think its related to PTSD or drugs. Heroin is the easiest to overdose on and only recently spiked in use. PTSD also comes from physical and sexual abuse which many women have endured.

1. As has been said, women prefer low lethality methods.
2. Has the availability of guns increased? I would like to see the methods in this data. 60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicide.
3. A lot of coroners would not code a death as a suicide in many cases to spare the family the trauma and stigma. It was often coded as "accident."
4. Lack of belonging is a protective factor. The family unit is not as strong and less go to church.
5. Believing in a higher power is a protective factor. More atheists nowadays.
6. Poverty is also a risk factor. The classes continue to widen. (not as big of a deal when 15-24 probably.)
7. This is the age when schizophrenic males have their "first psychotic break." Women are later and less often.


I believe it is mostly #1 and #2 w the others influencing to a lesser extent.

Last edited by Utopian Slums; 08-18-2014 at 02:26 AM.. Reason: additional info
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:05 AM
 
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I'm surprised the rate for black men isn't higher
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
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An interesting article in New Republic references a lot of solid research about current suicide rates in America. In an opinion piece in the New York Times, conservative columnist Ross Douthat looked at the surge in suicides among middle-aged Americans. He hypothesized that it is related to the imbalanced economy and what he called America’s “retreat from community” — particularly the statistically declining participation in traditional institutions like marriage and religion.

Author Nate Cohn examined Douthat's contentions and explored the research on suicides, particularly as they related to depressed people. He ended up calling his article The Surge in Suicides Has Nothing to Do with Marriage or Religion. The data he examined showed little evidence that the current surge in suicide (historic numbers notwithstanding) is any lower in people with strong family ties or religious practices.

Cohn writes, "... there’s no correlation — zero — between a states’ suicide rate and religion, marriage rates, or single occupancy homes. State economic growth or unemployment don’t line up, either. Economically struggling states like Michigan and Indiana, for instance, had suicide rates near the national average, while booming North Dakota was well above." Suicide rates have increased nearly 30%, to 17.6 deaths per 100,000 people, among ages 35-64 in the past ten years. If Douthat's contentions are correct, then one would expect suicide rates should be lowest in the South, where membership in religion is statistically highest, or in the inland West, where marriage is statistically most common. But in fact, suicide rates are lowest in the northeastern corridor of the U.S. where people are most likely to live in urban areas, hardly considered a bastion of conservatism in our country.

Cohn's research shows, "Suicide is most common in the sparsely populated states of the interior West ... The suicide rate in states like Alaska or Montana is more than 300 percent higher than in D.C. or New York ... If anything correlates with suicide rates, it’s a state's population density: In populous areas, suicide rates are low; in the sparsely populated hinterlands, suicide rates are high."

Increase of Suicide in U.S. Not Due to Marriage or Religion Decline | New Republic
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodKidMaadCity View Post
This was the first time I saw this graph, and I find it shocking. It's almost tripled since the early 1900s.







What do you think are the causes for the men's suicide rate to increase by that much and reach so high?
Possibly, a downward job market, a corrupt education system, lack of social mobility, increased social pressures, the inability to create a quality life one wants or has to offer but can't.

And men do have a way of internalizing feelings without outwardly verbalizing it, because in society, it's deemed unmanly so they bottle it up and when the brinking point occurs.. they feel they have no one and no where to turn to.

Maybe we need to create a culture which encourages men to express their emotions more freely, and still be respected, because crying, sadness, normal human emotions are okay to express. And, perhaps a sense of community which encourages that expression of humility?
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Old 08-21-2014, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kat949 View Post
Possibly, a downward job market, a corrupt education system, lack of social mobility, increased social pressures, the inability to create a quality life one wants or has to offer but can't.

And men do have a way of internalizing feelings without outwardly verbalizing it, because in society, it's deemed unmanly so they bottle it up and when the brinking point occurs.. they feel they have no one and no where to turn to.

Maybe we need to create a culture which encourages men to express their emotions more freely, and still be respected, because crying, sadness, normal human emotions are okay to express. And, perhaps a sense of community which encourages that expression of humility?
Plus it might cut down on the number of guys who complain online about life's problems.
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