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Old 04-22-2013, 08:10 PM
 
39 posts, read 59,150 times
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I'm thinking 'Nam had a lot to do with it.

I think that it must have been very stressful for young men in the draft.
Waiting to be called up for war, many of the boys too young to be able to even vote on decisions that were deciding their lives. And their deaths.

And all the more so for the men who went. Some committed suicide while they were at war.
Many more killed themselves after coming home and trying to readjust.

Here's some facts from Chuck Dean's book, "Nam Vet: Making Peace with Your Past", first printed in 1987:

"Since 1975, nearly three times as many Vietnam veterans have committed suicide than were killed in the war.

Fifty-eight-thousand-plus Americans died in the Vietnam War. Over 150,000 have committed suicide since the war ended.

The suicide rate among veterans who have completed the local VA program is estimated at 2.5 per hundred.

The national accidental death and suicide rate is fourteen thousand men per year—33 percent above the national average.
Of those veterans who were married before going to Vietnam, 38 percent were divorced within six months after returning from Southeast Asia.

The divorce rate amongst Vietnam veterans is above 90 percent.

Five-hundred thousand Vietnam veterans have been arrested or incarcerated by the law. It is estimated that there are 100,000 Vietnam vets in prison today, and 200,000 on parole.

Drug-and-alcohol abuse problems range between 50 percent and 75 percent.

Forty percent of Vietnam veterans are unemployed and 25 percent earn less than seven thousand dollars per year."


That's a lot of pretty strong stressors.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:05 AM
 
823 posts, read 1,664,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
This has nothing to do with a spike starting in the late 1960s. No question men have always had a higher suicide rate than women, but the issue raised by the graph is a sudden spike in young male suicide rates beginning in the late 1960s and dramatically rising through about 200 or so and then leveling off a bit. Prior to that men and woman s suicide rates rose and fell roughly together. Suddenly form a late 1960s a massive spike in young male suicide rates with no corresponding massive spike in young female suicide rates. So far most poster are simply ignoring the question that started the thread. There are a lot of things that can be said about suicide generally. But this thread is about the sudden spike, which is very interesting, does anyone have anything to say about the spike?

Very easy. The spike correspond to the time when the American dream became a market commodity sold to everyone.(around the world)

New technology, (tv) allowed to sell the idea that the American dream was a must for any self respecting male. If you don´t have a big house in suburbia, a big car, a hot trophy wife, a hot trophy mistress, and send your kids to an Ivy League college, then you are a loser and you'll die alone and poor.


Before the 50s/60s people didn´t give a hoot about product brands, houses, cars, etc, because they didn´t see them on tv. The social pressure to keep up with the neibours was softer. All of a sudden millions of people saw on a daily basis rolemodels (actors), the right people doing the right things and consuming the right products.


So males are obviously more vulnerable to this phenomena, for the reasons stated on my previous post.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
7,758 posts, read 12,282,913 times
Reputation: 7783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulenspiegel View Post
I'm thinking 'Nam had a lot to do with it.

I think that it must have been very stressful for young men in the draft.
Waiting to be called up for war, many of the boys too young to be able to even vote on decisions that were deciding their lives. And their deaths.

And all the more so for the men who went. Some committed suicide while they were at war.
Many more killed themselves after coming home and trying to readjust.

Here's some facts from Chuck Dean's book, "Nam Vet: Making Peace with Your Past", first printed in 1987:

"Since 1975, nearly three times as many Vietnam veterans have committed suicide than were killed in the war.

Fifty-eight-thousand-plus Americans died in the Vietnam War. Over 150,000 have committed suicide since the war ended.

The suicide rate among veterans who have completed the local VA program is estimated at 2.5 per hundred.

The national accidental death and suicide rate is fourteen thousand men per year—33 percent above the national average.
Of those veterans who were married before going to Vietnam, 38 percent were divorced within six months after returning from Southeast Asia.

The divorce rate amongst Vietnam veterans is above 90 percent.

Five-hundred thousand Vietnam veterans have been arrested or incarcerated by the law. It is estimated that there are 100,000 Vietnam vets in prison today, and 200,000 on parole.

Drug-and-alcohol abuse problems range between 50 percent and 75 percent.

Forty percent of Vietnam veterans are unemployed and 25 percent earn less than seven thousand dollars per year."


That's a lot of pretty strong stressors.


This would explain the spike. Vietnam was the first major US war where the men involved did not come back as heroes. That also ties in to the sociological theories about how "real men" are perceived and how hard it is for them to live up to that socialization. A "real man" doesn't express emotion and does everything that is "his duty" including taking orders to kill whomever the government declares to be the current enemy.

Last edited by Hollytree; 04-23-2013 at 07:47 AM..
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:50 AM
 
823 posts, read 1,664,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
This would explain the spike. Vietnam was the first major US war where the men involved did not come back as heroes.


But that would not explain why the rest of men men who had nothing to do with the Vietman war commit suicide.

Why would the Vietman war have any effect on a 20 yo man who decides to jump off the Golden Bridge?
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:06 AM
 
39 posts, read 59,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier77 View Post
But that would not explain why the rest of men men who had nothing to do with the Vietman war commit suicide.

Why would the Vietman war have any effect on a 20 yo man who decides to jump off the Golden Bridge?

Actually, with so many men away, things were very different here at home.
I'm not quite sure how that may have affected the young men who weren't in service, but it must have had SOME sort of effect.

And as I said before, the stress of waiting to see if you were going to be called away to a place where soldiers were being horribly slaughtered was considerable.

I was there. Every day on the news, they'd give the body count.
And I remember sitting around with my brother and my male friends, watching the news and waiting to see if their number was going to be called up.
It was like a horrible lottery that you didn't want to win.

But your question isn't really valid.

Are you really looking for ONE reason that accounts for ALL the suicides that occur at any given time?
That will never be the case.

But it may be enough of a reason to cause the spike. (At least in part.)
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,248 posts, read 1,949,018 times
Reputation: 2515
Statistically men are much more likely to go through with committing suicide. They also usually use a gun to the head. Women are more likely to use a "soft" suicide attempt as a cry for help. If a woman is serious about it, they usually do something like slit there wrists or take an overdose of pills as to not mess up their face. Women usually also put on makeup and do their hair before doing the deed.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
20,308 posts, read 23,886,921 times
Reputation: 28100
One poster mentioned that women have a stronger support system, but conversely, men also may have a stronger support system to kill themselves, via knowing others who have committed suicide, which helps give them the courage to do it.

I lost a very good friend to suicide back in 1975, and that will propel me to do it someday. "If he can do it, I can do it!"
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
7,758 posts, read 12,282,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post

I lost a very good friend to suicide back in 1975, and that will propel me to do it someday. "If he can do it, I can do it!"
No, that would be weak. It would mean you are incapable of independent thought.
You're more than a lemming aren't you?
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
28,941 posts, read 69,067,795 times
Reputation: 35383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulenspiegel View Post
I'm thinking 'Nam had a lot to do with it.

I think that it must have been very stressful for young men in the draft.
Waiting to be called up for war, many of the boys too young to be able to even vote on decisions that were deciding their lives. And their deaths.

And all the more so for the men who went. Some committed suicide while they were at war.
Many more killed themselves after coming home and trying to readjust.

Here's some facts from Chuck Dean's book, "Nam Vet: Making Peace with Your Past", first printed in 1987:

"Since 1975, nearly three times as many Vietnam veterans have committed suicide than were killed in the war.

Fifty-eight-thousand-plus Americans died in the Vietnam War. Over 150,000 have committed suicide since the war ended.

The suicide rate among veterans who have completed the local VA program is estimated at 2.5 per hundred.

The national accidental death and suicide rate is fourteen thousand men per year—33 percent above the national average.
Of those veterans who were married before going to Vietnam, 38 percent were divorced within six months after returning from Southeast Asia.

The divorce rate amongst Vietnam veterans is above 90 percent.

Five-hundred thousand Vietnam veterans have been arrested or incarcerated by the law. It is estimated that there are 100,000 Vietnam vets in prison today, and 200,000 on parole.

Drug-and-alcohol abuse problems range between 50 percent and 75 percent.

Forty percent of Vietnam veterans are unemployed and 25 percent earn less than seven thousand dollars per year."


That's a lot of pretty strong stressors.
Vietnam veterans do not fit the graph. They are not young men, they are older men and have been for more then ten years. The graph is addressing men no older than 24.

Maybe Vietnam caused the start of the spike, then movies about Vietnam caused it to continue amongst younger men and then video games took over.

Rampant drug use seems more likely. Rampant drug use may also explain the high suicide rates amongst Vietnam veterans.
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
28,941 posts, read 69,067,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madeline2121 View Post
Statistically men are much more likely to go through with committing suicide. They also usually use a gun to the head. Women are more likely to use a "soft" suicide attempt as a cry for help. If a woman is serious about it, they usually do something like slit there wrists or take an overdose of pills as to not mess up their face. Women usually also put on makeup and do their hair before doing the deed.
It is funny how many people respond tot he title of a threat without reading the OP or the linked article. I have to admit having done that as well at times. Then I go back and actually read the thread and say "Ooops!"
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