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For some men with a very strong sex drive, I don't think it is a matter of having sex with women OR men, rather it is having sex with women AND men (or anything else which comes along!)
Sort of like an always hungry dog which eats anything and everything - not very picky!
Basically they have an incredibly strong sex drive and don't pass up any opportunity which presents itself. They might prefer a shapely young woman, but anything else will do in a "pinch".
So they may start out in a bar on a Friday night wanting to find the perfect looking young woman, but don't succeed and wind up going home with a guy.
Other men have a lower sex drive and can "control" themselves more so. Can be more picky. Might choose no sex if they can't find a woman.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J
For some men with a very strong sex drive, I don't think it is a matter of having sex with women OR men, rather it is having sex with women AND men (or anything else which comes along!)
Sort of like an always hungry dog which eats anything and everything - not very picky!
Basically they have an incredibly strong sex drive and don't pass up any opportunity which presents itself. They might prefer a shapely young woman, but anything else will do in a "pinch".
So they may start out in a bar on a Friday night wanting to find the perfect looking young woman, but don't succeed and wind up going home with a guy.
Other men have a lower sex drive and can "control" themselves more so. Can be more picky. Might choose no sex if they can't find a woman.
I honestly believe if there was no stigma against gay sex you'd see A LOT more straight men experimenting and playing the field. History bears this out. Men have been conditioned from a young age to be REPULSED by the male gender.
I know and agree that most people are born mostly gay or straight, but, especially for those in between, do you know of any cases where a man who was straight - or mostly straight, was so frustrated with his lack of success with women that he actually sought a RELATIONSHIP, not just sex, with another bloke? Or what about cases where he got fed up with the female gender and decided to bat for his own team? I mean it seems to happen with women sometimes...moreso when they get sick of men.
They say male sexuality is less fluid, and it may be, but I'm actually pretty sure this happens sometimes. I think it's still more fluid than we think and society has conditioned us into the rigid categories of straight, gay and even bi.
I'm not planning this myself, but I could understand someone who did. I just thought it'd be interesting to hear real life scenarios. I'm not taking closet gays or anything like that, just to be clear.
Yes, there is some overlap. Usually, this involves men who are addicted to sex, and may explore. Some straight guys will be very secure with their own sexuality, and their own masculinity that they don't feel any threat from gay guys, and will often have gay friends. At the right time, in the right place, maybe after a few beers, ya, it could happen. A lot of straight guys like receiving oral sex more than vaginal sex, and might have more difficulty finding women interested. When I served in the U.S. Navy, after ten weeks of boot camp, most straight guys have lost their homophobia, and might experiment, especially in an environment with very few females. However, nobody ever changes permanently, unless they were gay to begin with.
I know and agree that most people are born mostly gay or straight, but, especially for those in between, do you know of any cases where a man who was straight - or mostly straight, was so frustrated with his lack of success with women that he actually sought a RELATIONSHIP, not just sex, with another bloke? Or what about cases where he got fed up with the female gender and decided to bat for his own team? I mean it seems to happen with women sometimes...moreso when they get sick of men.
They say male sexuality is less fluid, and it may be, but I'm actually pretty sure this happens sometimes. I think it's still more fluid than we think and society has conditioned us into the rigid categories of straight, gay and even bi.
I'm not planning this myself, but I could understand someone who did. I just thought it'd be interesting to hear real life scenarios. I'm not taking closet gays or anything like that, just to be clear.
A guy might go to a hooker but not another guy out of desperation, a normal straight guy would be grossed out by the thought of kissing or touching another guy sexually.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autism360
A guy might go to a hooker but not another guy out of desperation, a normal straight guy would be grossed out by the thought of kissing or touching another guy sexually.
Well if you're talking just sex then yeah, if there are no females around he'll turn to the next best thing.
I know and agree that most people are born mostly gay or straight, but, especially for those in between, do you know of any cases where a man who was straight - or mostly straight, was so frustrated with his lack of success with women that he actually sought a RELATIONSHIP, not just sex, with another bloke? Or what about cases where he got fed up with the female gender and decided to bat for his own team? I mean it seems to happen with women sometimes...moreso when they get sick of men.
They say male sexuality is less fluid, and it may be, but I'm actually pretty sure this happens sometimes. I think it's still more fluid than we think and society has conditioned us into the rigid categories of straight, gay and even bi.
I'm not planning this myself, but I could understand someone who did. I just thought it'd be interesting to hear real life scenarios. I'm not taking closet gays or anything like that, just to be clear.
It happens all the time in prisons and extremist cults that keep men and women separated until marriage.
To answer the original question, "Do men ever 'go Gay' out of desperation"...
Yes! I think they do.
A longtime Gay bud from my old gym (we'll call him 'Brad') has had several (or maybe I should say "maintains several") relationships with men who are basically straight. He's a very loving individual who lives in a miserable city, in a miserable state, where the Gay Community is a predictably poisonous milieu. Gay/Gay interactions there are just about sex and personal insults. Brad has all this love to give, but nobody who wants it... well... except for these straight guys.
I'm a strong girl. I lift the whole stack on a lot of leg machines. Brad lifts the whole stack on the (much, much harder) upper body machines. An hour of lifting, seven days a week. An hour of cardio, seven days a week. He's a big, strong, beautiful guy. But he's pretty femmy, which in the Deep South makes him an untouchable in the Gay Community... just somebody to use for sex. Brad had Gay guys telling him to please not say anything...during: they didn't want to hear his nellie voice. Basically, they didn't want any affection or kissing because he was too femmy... and basically not good enough for affection... only good enough for sex. Well, he learned, finally, to just avoid other Gay men, and to be open to overtures by straight guys.
The first was a trucker he met at an ATM machine, of all places. The guy was just about dying of loneliness. "You can do what you want to, but I just want somebody to hold me." Well, that guy hit the jackpot with Brad: a two-hundred-twenty-pound snugglebunny who hugged that trucker so hard and for so long the encounter left TruckerDude sore and bruised all over... and very, very happy (he's still a regular). That was Brad's first "real man". He'd tasted Sirloin, and wasn't about to go back to 'Meat Byproduct'. Brad hasn't been intimate with a Gay guy since. "Gloria! That trucker couldn't get aroused. But he was obviously in Heaven. I was in Heaven. It was wonderful! It's like we were floating! My mind was whirling around, and I think I actually was seeing stars! I've never felt anything like it!" (I didn't have the heart to tell Brad I've been having the same experience twice a day, since I was seventeen, with my DH.)
After that, Brad tuned into subtle, very tentative overtures being made by straight, married, 'daddies' at the gym. Generally, these guys were middle-aged, and were tired of being used, manipulated, and held at arm's length by women. Some days, we'd be alone in the Cardio Room, and Brad could tell me, at length, about his encounters. One recently divorced guy, about two minutes into being in Brad's arms, started crying untrollably... just overwhelmed with finally being held by somebody bigger and stronger than himself (Since then, that building contractor has gone into second and third unhappy marriages with luscious temptresses... and he continues, very sporadically, to see Brad.).
I've seen Brad pick up enormous dogs, and cuddle them like they were tiny puppies. The dogs, you can tell, are thinking, "Oh, oh, oh, YES! Finally! Oh, this is what I've always wanted!" I've never seen dogs behaving that way. Total joy.
And I'm suspecting that this is what Brad does, more or less, to his straight guys. He gives them an intensity of affection that they have been waiting for all their lives. The guys are not impotent with women. Half of them cannot become 'aroused' with Brad. But that's hardly the point. They're there for the love. He's there for the love.
The first few were middle-aged and going to pot. Now, Brad is being approached by bodybuilders his own age - and younger bodybuilders. Because of a history of destructive interactions with other Gay men, he only responds to overtures by straight guys.
One could say Brad's experiences are evidence of something being wrong with women in America today: that they only see men as means to an end - being interested only in what men can do for them. Alternately one could see this as evidence of a primal/innate need within men for physical intimacy with other men.
I know a Basque family in Colombia. I've seen photos of the men in the family, poolside, at home in Bogota: piled together like seals on a beach. Bare skin on bare skin, in basically a giant group hug. How lovely.
We women have far more opportunities for non-sexual intimate contact than do men. If homosexuality can act as a bridge which brings men into intimate loving contact with each other, then I think it's wonderful thing.
I'm a lucky girl. I've got a huge, hairy Cajun who's been giving me all the love and sex I could want, since we were seventeen. It hurts me to think that so many people in this world need intimacy like that... but never have it: ever. So, if homosexuality is a bridge some guys need to cross, to get to that intensity of 'oneness' (even momentarily) with another person, then I think it's a wonderful thing when they do cross that bridge.
Brad's story is hardly unique. I know other gay men in that town, and know of closeted homosexuals in that metro, whose stories are variants on that theme. There are wealthy closeted men in the high society enclaves of the city who have maintained loving relationships with blue collar guys in the less fashionable suburbs. Love and admiration go both ways in these relationships. Each of these guys gets something vital from the other man. These are successful men with healthy marriages and happy children. And so yes: I think that an acrimonious divorce or a Teasing Tawnya would be more than enough to send a completely heterosexual guy into the arms of a man willing to give him the admiration and adoration he'd been trying, unsuccessfully, to get from women.
________
Oh, and I do NOT believe that most people are born either Gay or straight. I think that bisexuality is the 'default setting' for human sexuality. Life experiences/social conditioning warp some of us 'straight', and warp some of us 'Gay'. The vast majority of people, I believe, remain bisexual (whether or not they know it: whether or not they acknowledge it)
My ex-husband's family had 8 boys, all straight. But, they were brought up in a home without sexual abuse, porn and with a religious upbringing. None developed any other mental health problems either.
Homosexuality is much more complicated than just a preference for male or female "relationships". It is more of a "condition" or set of "conditions": Homosexuality and Mental Health Problems
The majority of gay guys I know grew up in homes without sexual abuse or porn, with a varying degree of religious upbringings. In fact, I think most of them would find it insulting to have someone make a correlation between their sexuality and their family background. I do know one or two that had bad upbringings. To me, I don't think one's upbringings necessarily affects one's actual sexual leaning. What I have found is that with both my gay and straight friends backgrounds, their backgrounds affected how they dealt with relationships, rather than affected their actual sexual leanings. In regards to my friends' and relatives' religious upbringings, a stricter religious background may have affected their openness about their sexuality. I do have one friend whose family doesn't know he is gay because he knows they wouldn't approve. He is from a family of 6 boys and I am sure that all his relatives would say J and his brother are all straight (btw he is youngest in the family).
Though I agree that sexuality in general is complicated, on reading your link, it seemed to me that most of the author's so-called findings were inconclusive and proved nothing at all and also he is obviously biased towards a particular view, thus he is fitting things to fit his view.
Also, I just wanted to comment on the following by the author of your link:
Quote:
Another good comparison country is New Zealand, which is much more tolerant of homosexuality than is the United States. Legislation giving the movement special legal rights is powerful, consistently enforced throughout the country, and virtually never challenged. Despite this broad level of social tolerance, suicide attempts were common in a New Zealand study and occurred at about the same rate as in the U.S.
Though NZ legislation in general may be more tolerant of homosexuality than the US, it doesn't necessarily mean that individual NZers, especially older ones, are more likely to be tolerant of homosexuality in their families than Americans. It is a bit more complicated than that - a lot could have to do with where you live and also how open one is about their sexuality, eg one wonders whether those who have attempted suicide in NZ are more likely to come from backgrounds where they are unable to be open with their families. In fact, having to keep secrets from loved ones is often behind many suicide attempts.
Btw I am a Kiwi (though spent most of my life in Australia).
It just wouldn't be the Internet without posters who don't understand what "statistically more likely" means, posting lonely anecdotes as 'proof' that the data is bad. Or who think that parents can turn their kids gay.
OP, I think that your scenario is vanishingly rare. There are heaps of sincere women out there, looking for men... the number of men who cannot ever find any woman, or only find manipulative harpies, AND are attractive to gay men, AND lack enough other sources of fulfillment in their lives that they are driven to companionship with someone outside of their orientation cannot be anything other than tiny.
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