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Old 06-03-2013, 06:00 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,682 posts, read 49,076,298 times
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I find the idea of 'righteous anger' and righteous justice interesting. During different times and periods, it almost seems like people have had different ideas as to what is an acceptable punishment for one who has done wrong. Judging by the hateful comments I've heard (or rather seen) on the internet and heard in real life, it seems some people will let lose their vengeful instincts if they feel there's just cause.

For instance even mild-mannered and peaceful people who advocate the vilest most sadistic tortures and methods of killing for pedophiles or serial killers. I'm not saying these people do not deserve punishment, but isn't say, wishing them to be hung drawn and quartered stooping to their level? It disturbs me when a majority of people are like this. Even people who commit lesser crimes like robbery, some people think these people deserve to die cruel deaths (or at least say they do, whether they're serious about it or not is another matter). I've found this is the reason why unthinkably barbaric punishments of the Middle Ages exist.

Do you feel the majority of people are like that, are you like that yourself, and does it make you uncomfortable to live in such a world? It actually seems as scary as the evil itself, and is an evil in itself IMO. People seem to get a high out of righteous anger and relish the prospect of revenge. Of course I've felt pangs of it, but I usually keep it under control and I feel mercy quite easily. I find this is related to people overreacting towards people who may hurt or upset a loved one, e.g. a father wanting to kill a man who rapes his daughter. It seems many people feel this is acceptable behaviour, which actually disturbs me.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:52 AM
 
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I think people are just expressing their disgust when they say that pedophiles and serial killers should receive some extreme punishment. I don't think people want a barbaric punishment but I think a lot of people would like them to be put to death in a non gory fashion like the gas chamber. Pedophiles and serial killers are just so aberrant and have no mercy so they don't elicit much sympathy. They are not going to have any mercy on you.

I don't think it is an act of revenge either. I think these type of sexual predators are defective and you can't really rehabilitate them. I'm not really a fan of capital punishment myself but I'm not happy with these types being let out into the community after committing sexual crimes numerous times. How many times have they been charged with rape and did stints in prison and then they are let out to continue? Look at the rap sheet of the guy that murdered Jill Meagher. Personally I'd be happier if pedophiles and sexual predators where locked up permanently if they re-offend. I am not comfortable with the death penalty but if predators are being released from prison like what is happening too often lately I can see why the death penalty would be a good option for these violent offenders.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:29 AM
 
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Being older, having read about how the criminal justice system actually works (not the ideal people think), and having "in my mind" convicted an accused person shown on the news and thought they should "string him up" (person was actually innocent), and the possibility I might be on a jury, I am more comfortable with the current "mild" forms of punishment.

The thing is people are sometimes wrongly accused and convicted. If you have forms of punishment like where they cut off a hand for a thief, that can't be reversed if the person is later found innocent.

A real eye opener was rape cases where men were convicted before DNA testing came along. They kept the evidence. Then DNA testing came along and they re-examined the evidence. A VERY high percentage of those convicted men were innocent! They were then released from jail and their records expunged. And I think some of the women who wrongfully accused those men were prosecuted for perjury or sued.

Anyway it is a good thing in those cases that "body parts" were not cut off as punishment!

The general public does not know about these mistakes made in the past, however those working in the criminal justice system do, so maybe that is why they have adopted more mild forms of punishment over time?

Also, in the U.S. at least, there is a communication disconnect between the criminal justice system and the general public...

For example I know someone who was a clerk at a convenience store and he sold beer to a minor, then was arrested and convicted. He then had a "criminal record". After that happened, he tried renting apartments... Well they run a "criminal record check" on potential renters. It showed him as being a "criminal". But the criminal record uses a legal coding system and does not state in clear English what the offense was. So the landlord has no idea what he did and just denies the rental application because he is a "criminal"! Basically he can not rent an apartment anymore due to his "record".

And same sort of thing with sex offenders. They are all lumped into the same bucket with the same label and the criminal justice system will not say what specifically the person did. It could have been a relationship between an 18 year old (adult) and a 17 year old (minor), yet the person is forever labeled as a "sex offender", must register, and place a sign on his/her house stating such. Then the neighbors think the worst - that the person will be going after their small children!

So the criminal justice system is better now than in the middle ages, but still could use a bit of work. (Also many courts and legal records departments have still not computerized their records. For something as simple as which court room a particular case will be in, no looking it up on the internet, rather you must call or ask at the court house!)
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:46 AM
 
2,675 posts, read 4,556,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J View Post
Being older, having read about how the criminal justice system actually works (not the ideal people think), and having "in my mind" convicted an accused person shown on the news and thought they should "string him up" (person was actually innocent), and the possibility I might be on a jury, I am more comfortable with the current "mild" forms of punishment.

The thing is people are sometimes wrongly accused and convicted. If you have forms of punishment like where they cut off a hand for a thief, that can't be reversed if the person is later found innocent.

A real eye opener was rape cases where men were convicted before DNA testing came along. They kept the evidence. Then DNA testing came along and they re-examined the evidence. A VERY high percentage of those convicted men were innocent! They were then released from jail and their records expunged. And I think some of the women who wrongfully accused those men were prosecuted for perjury or sued.

Anyway it is a good thing in those cases that "body parts" were not cut off as punishment!

The general public does not know about these mistakes made in the past, however those working in the criminal justice system do, so maybe that is why they have adopted more mild forms of punishment over time?

Also, in the U.S. at least, there is a communication disconnect between the criminal justice system and the general public...

For example I know someone who was a clerk at a convenience store and he sold beer to a minor, then was arrested and convicted. He then had a "criminal record". After that happened, he tried renting apartments... Well they run a "criminal record check" on potential renters. It showed him as being a "criminal". But the criminal record uses a legal coding system and does not state in clear English what the offense was. So the landlord has no idea what he did and just denies the rental application because he is a "criminal"! Basically he can not rent an apartment anymore due to his "record".

And same sort of thing with sex offenders. They are all lumped into the same bucket with the same label and the criminal justice system will not say what specifically the person did. It could have been a relationship between an 18 year old (adult) and a 17 year old (minor), yet the person is forever labeled as a "sex offender", must register, and place a sign on his/her house stating such. Then the neighbors think the worst - that the person will be going after their small children!

So the criminal justice system is better now than in the middle ages, but still could use a bit of work. (Also many courts and legal records departments have still not computerized their records. For something as simple as which court room a particular case will be in, no looking it up on the internet, rather you must call or ask at the court house!)
At least now they have dna so hopefully innocent people won't be imprisoned. I do think there should be some distinction made between a person having sex with a consenting 17 year old and an actual pedophile. Labelling someone a "sex offender" if they were 18 and had sex with a willing 17 year old doesn't serve any useful purpose and really causes confusion about who are actually the dangerous ones that people should wary of.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:47 PM
 
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Do you feel the majority of people are like that, are you like that yourself, and does it make you uncomfortable to live in such a world? It actually seems as scary as the evil itself, and is an evil in itself IMO. People seem to get a high out of righteous anger and relish the prospect of revenge. Of course I've felt pangs of it, but I usually keep it under control and I feel mercy quite easily. I find this is related to people overreacting towards people who may hurt or upset a loved one, e.g. a father wanting to kill a man who rapes his daughter. It seems many people feel this is acceptable behaviour, which actually disturbs me.
Would you like to live in a world where everyone is completely peace loving, anti-violence and would not hurt a fly? And then one day one crazy person goes on a killing rampage and everyone is helpless to stop him? Aggression and violence when channeled correctly is very useful in society. Since you mentioned righteous anger and not random violence, you are already talking about violence directly toward deserving people. I don't find anything scary or evil in that.
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:51 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 20,420,628 times
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I think most people (myself included) are "all talk" when we say things like what the OP mentioned. We express our (righteous) anger verbally through hyperbole.

I love animals, and I'm certain that when I've read of some horrible case of animal cruelty in the news, I've surely said things like "the person should get the same punishment he gave the animal" or that he/she should be tortured, beaten, etc. But do I sincerely mean that? No. I'm just expressing my rage. People usually get that.

Same in cases of child rape. Same with the freak who kidnapped and held the women in Ohio for years. I've said things about making such people "pay" through some horrible punishment. But I'm not a violent person and never actually committed physical violence in my life, apart from shoving my sister when I was like 6 years old.

Every day we say things like "I could just kill her for doing that!" or "Agh! I want to strangle him when he acts like that!" But we don't really mean we actually want to kill or strangle these people.

I think most of us (adults, in the western world, who have at least some semblance of mental health, and some idea of "justice") don't sincerely mean it when we say these things. We just express our righteous anger verbally to show how deeply we're feeling it. Expressing it verbally with violent imagery is what we do INSTEAD of engaging in physical violence.

Most of us also know that fantasies of revenge are almost always infinitely better than actually taking revenge on someone.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Dallas
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Animal abusers and child molesters sicken me. Justice is rarely served according to the offense. Do I think they should suffer trauma and pain similar to what they inflicted? YES. Would I be able to carry out that punishment? No. But I would support someone who was able to, and I would want a ringside seat.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:38 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,682 posts, read 49,076,298 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
Would you like to live in a world where everyone is completely peace loving, anti-violence and would not hurt a fly? And then one day one crazy person goes on a killing rampage and everyone is helpless to stop him? Aggression and violence when channeled correctly is very useful in society. Since you mentioned righteous anger and not random violence, you are already talking about violence directly toward deserving people. I don't find anything scary or evil in that.
I didn't say go to the other extreme, and being peace-loving and a pacifist does not mean condoning acts of violence or leaving them unpunished. All I'm saying is that it seems that there are situations where many people think it's okay to be fairly barbaric towards someone. We as a society don't even believe in an eye to an eye, more like a whole body for an eye. Yes, many things disgust me, animal abuse, child abuse, like they would most normal human beings, but I don't rejoice over imagining these people being thrown into a big pot of boiling oil...their screams of agony are not music to my ears. Even in the worst case scenario sure if serial killers or pedophiles should be shot at least do it mercifully...I know the hurt they caused.etc, but I just don't feel we should stoop to their level and delight in torture. Even the idea of torturing the likes of Saddam Hussein actually doesn't give me a thrill, although maybe he deserves a bit of torturing lol jk.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:28 PM
 
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Actually different countries have different punishments.

I've read some prisoners in France are kept in total darkness alone and many do not last for over a year. Here is a story on that...
Prisons in France found to have 'inhuman' living conditions | Avaaz

And then in Sweden prisoners are kept in an almost apartment like setting...
Swedish Prison - Gallery

Saudi Arabia is to an extreme... Public stoning, theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand, flogging with a cane, beheading, etc.

Here are a couple of stories...
Saudi Arabia to behead seven today: rights group | NDTV.com

Saudi court orders man to be paralyzed as an Islamic punishment - World News

Saudi Arabia to punish men over Christian woman convert: paper
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:10 PM
 
13,391 posts, read 16,883,879 times
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No, I don't feel the majority of people are like that...I can't imagine a "mild mannered, peaceful person" being like that either...I've always believed two wrongs don't make a right.
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