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Old 11-02-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: A little corner of paradise
687 posts, read 1,498,333 times
Reputation: 1243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
I have obviously failed to make myself clear, so let me try again. I am not seeking, and I have no desire, to force my participation on an existing group who don't want me there. I don't need any answers to retiring alone, as I retired in place and am quite satisfied. I simply responded to a post which I found out of line, and I did not find that offensive post in the Retirement Forum thread, but rather in a post in the "About the Forum" forum. I then went to the thread in the Retirement Forum which had been referenced and found the post repeated there. So once again let me repeat: I am seeking to understand something I found puzzling; I am not seeking inclusion anywhere.
I thought you were quite clear, and I had a similar experience on the Guns forum. I just happened to be scrolling through all the forums, and saw a question about the availability of ammunition in CA, when it was very difficult to find. My stepson manages a guns and ammo store, so I actually had up-to-date info about the situation. I shared the info, then made the mistake of adding that I'm not a big gun fan. They wasted no time in telling me I shouldn't be commenting on the Guns forum, if I didn't like guns. I was ok with that. Whatever. As some here have said, if they don't want me, I don't want to be there.

I hope you've gained some understanding here. There have been some very good answers. I appreciate that you seek to understand the origin of the hostility, rather than lump all women together as angry men-haters.
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,954,699 times
Reputation: 32535
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Is it possible that just as you have been misunderstood here, and your intentions different than we assumed..that you assumed the women on that thread were portraying an "anti-male" sentiment, and that their intention was also not what it appeared?

I think many people both male and female might be angered if the thread they started was altered by the site due to its apparent lack of political correctness. Since you say yourself there was no indication of anger on the thread until that point, I think it's probably not as much a gender issue as you think it is.
Well yes, it's possible. But I have the advantage of having read the actual posts, which are no longer available to settle the matter because they were taken down within hours. Also, there were several different posters who participated in that particular exchange, and the extent to which it was a "gender issue" was probably not the same for each one of them. The intensity of the anger pretty much blew me away, although I am thick-skinned and I think I held my own. Six of my own posts were deleted, and probably more than six total of other posters.
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,885 posts, read 85,381,848 times
Reputation: 115642
I wish I had been able to read the exchange/deleted posts to get a view of what happened.

I took some time to write up the feedback in my earlier post as to the differences in perception between women and men re the subject matter, Escort Rider, yet you haven't commented on what I said. If you get a chance and are so inclined, I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,954,699 times
Reputation: 32535
Default You wrote an excellent post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I wish I had been able to read the exchange/deleted posts to get a view of what happened.

I took some time to write up the feedback in my earlier post as to the differences in perception between women and men re the subject matter, Escort Rider, yet you haven't commented on what I said. If you get a chance and are so inclined, I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
I can understand your desire to have read those posts, but I can assure you the whole exchange was not very pleasant!

As for your earlier post in this thread, I thought you had an excellent point. You are the only one, I believe, to come up with the fact that older women are far, far less likely to find a new partner than older men, largely because men die younger than women, on the average. That constitutes a genuine difference between men and women, at least at the ages we are talking about, a difference which probably results in women feeling genuinely alone, thus contributing to their desire to find company and solace in each other.

The fact itself is pretty obvious, yet I had never given it any thought. So you see, my male perspective is showing!
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,885 posts, read 85,381,848 times
Reputation: 115642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
I can understand your desire to have read those posts, but I can assure you the whole exchange was not very pleasant!

As for your earlier post in this thread, I thought you had an excellent point. You are the only one, I believe, to come up with the fact that older women are far, far less likely to find a new partner than older men, largely because men die younger than women, on the average. That constitutes a genuine difference between men and women, at least at the ages we are talking about, a difference which probably results in women feeling genuinely alone, thus contributing to their desire to find company and solace in each other.

The fact itself is pretty obvious, yet I had never given it any thought. So you see, my male perspective is showing!
But I thank you for the feedback. I put a lot of thought into that post. It was truly difficult to write it out, personally, since I'm in that peculiar situation of having to put aside hope for love at a certain age and accept that it isn't going to happen. It's a hard thing to swallow to know I will die without having known what love was like. In my time, we were told that eventually you will be loved. It's not true. There is not someone for everyone. Your time does not always come. So now I have to continue to live out the rest of of my time with different goals as to how the next years will be spent. Men, in general, don't have to go through that. They will have someone. Someone will love them. For the rest of us, it is not to be. It is sad and it is hard, and it is primarily a women's heartache.

And unfairly, perhaps that's the root of the anger towards the men. Women often still set their value by how men value them, and so many of us were deemed not to be not good enough by men. We were not worthy of being loved. We are garbage, tossed aside by those who had the power to make us feel valued, and it begets the anger.

But... the anger is ours to work through. It is not the fault of a man who may have wandered into a thread!

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 11-02-2013 at 09:29 PM..
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
129 posts, read 518,648 times
Reputation: 103
Oh boy, just gonna go ahead and say this, i'm gonna get blasted for sure but here it goes:

Some of the forum members (sounds like older single women from the thread description) found a place they wanted to coo, it was ruined, and all hell broke loose as a result.

Comments I am expecting to receive from this:

1 you have no idea.....
2 we need to stop judging and make things more equal...
3 this is a direct attack on...
4 how offensive to....
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,885 posts, read 85,381,848 times
Reputation: 115642
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrecc View Post
Oh boy, just gonna go ahead and say this, i'm gonna get blasted for sure but here it goes:

Some of the forum members (sounds like older single women from the thread description) found a place they wanted to coo, it was ruined, and all hell broke loose as a result.

Comments I am expecting to receive from this:

1 you have no idea.....
2 we need to stop judging and make things more equal...
3 this is a direct attack on...
4 how offensive to....
What does that mean? "Coo"?
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:35 PM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,958,032 times
Reputation: 17353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
In the City-Data Retirement Forum there was a long-standing sticky thread entitled "Women retiring alone to a new state". About six months ago the moderator changed the title to add the word "men": "Men and women retiring alone to a new state". Well yesterday all hell broke loose (sorry you can't go read it as it was taken down quickly). The OP complained (raged, actually) about the title change, lamenting the loss of the "safe haven" that the women had enjoyed for so long. I objected to the anti-male feeling tone of the post. Several women just about tore me a new one. The gist of it seemed to be that many women will just not post unless they feel protected within a cocoon of other women; males make them uncomfortable, as they (women) don't like confrontation, etc. There is something mutually supportive about the women flocking together. However, as a male I don't feel the same way about males flocking together. All-male activities can be fine, but I am not threatened by women.

I argued essentially that ideas are ideas and information is information and it shouldn't really matter, especially as far as posting goes. I would genuinely like to understand the ladies' attitude, and I hope it doesn't appear I am just trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, although I admit that is one possible outcome of my thread. It sure stirred up a hell of a hornet's nest over there!

The women's attitude which I described seems so strange and foreign to me (can that many of them really be that fragile?), so I am hoping someone will be able to explain it. Perhaps that will prove impossible, sort of like someone who likes Brussels sprouts explaining why they taste good to someone who doesn't?

Ironically, perhaps the mutual incomprehension proves the women right: perhaps they need their own threads? If so, I would love to gain an understanding of why, of how that is the case. Thanks for any help you can render, whether you are male or female. And although I have a thick skin, my hope for this thread is to avoid mean-spiritedness and recriminations. I have tried to word this OP so as to avoid instant polarization but I don't know if I succeeded because I am treading on ground which remains mysterious to me.

I am male, age 69, a retired high school teacher.
Bully for you. Oh snap. Men and women are different. Captain Obvious. Do you have a wife? Ask HER. She'd probably tell you the same thing. Butt OUT. The ladies clearly discussed SEVEN FREAKING YEARS of challenges, fears, successes, experiences etc. If you didn't get it from reading 155 pages of posts you'll NEVER get it.

Why can't you just leave it alone?

The WOMEN had that thread for 7 years.

Then a moderator, apparently a MALE renamed it "MEN and women blah blah blah".

Bad enough he hijacked the topic from WOMEN retiring but he put "MEN" FIRST.

As a poster stated:

Moderator, could you please step in and explain what is happening? We are just a bunch of old women who are alone and retiring or retired -- all we want to do is discuss it. It would really help if you gave your side of the opinion because all I'm trying to do is answer some of the posts. Thanks.

Don't you have some automotive oil to change or something?

You won't be moving into any Golden Girl housing arrangements any time soon so why not let them have their spot? Don't they have ENOUGH STRESS as it is?

The thread was NOT invisible to male eyes. If you were so interested in "learning".

You want it explained? OK - We really couldn't care less what you, [men] think about US RETIRING ALONE.

We had our time with men. Widows, divorcees, never married, women with NO kids or families etc etc. In case you didn't know, MOST women can't be bothered after a certain age. We have children and parents we're still sandwiched in between. Lunatic parents running around naked and setting houses on fire. Fathers sharing all the lewd things they would do to teenage girls they see on the street in a demented madness. Alzheimer's running in our families and wondering are we next. You name it, we have the party going on in OUR lives. Women live longer than men and outnumber men. Women are more likely to get Alzheimers than men. Women are also more likely to be CAREGIVERS than men.

Fragile? Not on your life. How condescending. Yes. That's why we want to just speak with each OTHER on the topic. They were just being POLITE, not fragile. They really wanted to say GTFO - but of course, being "nice"...they wouldn't.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 11-02-2013 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:00 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,958,304 times
Reputation: 8956
Amen. I just read some of the referenced thread and I feel it's a crime that it was hijacked. What a beautiful, rich thread it was. At least it got a seven year run before it was ruined.
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,954,699 times
Reputation: 32535
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
Why can't you just leave it alone?

You won't be moving into any Golden Girl housing arrangements any time soon so why not let them have their spot? Don't they have ENOUGH STRESS as it is?
Ah, now we are getting the flavor of the original! Mean-spirited, raging anger (that is, in the post as a whole, not so much in the small part of it I quoted above). Glad you posted, because now the other responders in this thread can see what I was talking about.

And the reason I chose that small portion to quote was to zero in on the deliberate misunderstanding that I don't want to "let them have their spot". So once again (although I hold no great hope that you will be able to hear anything I say), I will repeat that I had, and have, no objection to the thread as is was. I was, however, interested in the reasons behind the need for a women's only thread, and indeed I have received a good deal of insight from various posts in this present thread.

It is certainly instructive that you feel attacked and threatened by an inquiry into your own views and feelings. And it is instructive that you chose to respond in the attack mode - snide, snarky, hostile, resentful, beside yourself. To answer one of your questions, no, I don't have any automotive oil to change this week or next; I would rather explore the understanding of a part of the human race.
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