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Old 11-21-2013, 05:36 PM
 
18,821 posts, read 17,379,029 times
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I want to share something that helps me as I deal with the suicide of my close family member. It describes her situation to a T.

Each individual has his or her own necessities and expectations. When those are not fulfilled, or when there seems to be no clear way to fulfill them, when efforts fail to live one’s life according to individualized perceptions of what life should be—emotionally and culturally—the individual can experience feelings of chaos, fear and despair.

The act of suicide becomes a release because it appears to be the way to restore order and balance. That is, to the suicidal person, it is not the taking of one’s life that becomes the focus, it is the controlling of one’s life that becomes the focus.


It is a way of getting rid of that part of the self which seems unable to produce, elicit or receive what it needs. The suicide is perceived as a way of “setting right” the confusion.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
35,866 posts, read 23,553,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
I want to share something that helps me as I deal with the suicide of my close family member. It describes her situation to a T.

Each individual has his or her own necessities and expectations. When those are not fulfilled, or when there seems to be no clear way to fulfill them, when efforts fail to live one’s life according to individualized perceptions of what life should be—emotionally and culturally—the individual can experience feelings of chaos, fear and despair.

The act of suicide becomes a release because it appears to be the way to restore order and balance. That is, to the suicidal person, it is not the taking of one’s life that becomes the focus, it is the controlling of one’s life that becomes the focus.

It is a way of getting rid of that part of the self which seems unable to produce, elicit or receive what it needs. The suicide is perceived as a way of “setting right” the confusion.
Very well said Zentropa. I agree with everything you just posted!
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Foothills of Northern California
442 posts, read 532,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I lost a loved one to suicide almost five years ago. I've been told that he was very selfish and he didn't deserve to be remembered.

I am not very sure that I agree with this. Many times, the person is severely depressed and isn't in a proper mindset.

"of those who die from suicide, more than 90 percent have a diagnosable mental disorder.

People who die by suicide are frequently experiencing undiagnosed, undertreated, or untreated depression."

Facts About Mental Illness and Suicide - Mental Health Reporting - UW School of Social Work

So to say somebody who committed suicide are selfish is almost like saying being sick is selfish.

The bottom line is that nobody knows who is considering suicide sometimes. Everyone has left low, down or depressed at one point in their life, so how can anybody judge them for wanting to end their lives?

One of my grief counselor has used the term "terminal mental illness" to describe suicidal desperation. So when suicide is discussed, maybe people should be careful with the word "selfishness" because blaming and judging the suicide victim, only adds more pain and suffering to the people they left behind.

Do you believe people who committed suicide are selfish?
I can't imagine saying such about anyone who commits suicide. That's very sad.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:50 PM
 
Location: SNA=>PDX 2013
2,794 posts, read 3,595,981 times
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This is coming from a woman who was ready to kill herself twice this year alone, so take it for what it is.

I don't think suicide is selfish. What I think is selfish are the survivors who say, "what about me? look what you did to me!" OMG. Really?

I do think sometimes the suicidal person doesn't think about their actions and how it may affect people. From the person that finds them to their loved ones. But then, not everyone is thinking rationally at the time (obviously, it depends on the person and the reason).

My cousin committed suicide. He left a "I'm sorry" note for the person who found him. He left a "I'm sorry" and explanation note for his parents. Was that selfish? I think not.

As for the person who said that suicidal people don't think about what happens after, that isn't completely true. You wanna know what slowed me down earlier this year? Me thinking about what this was going to do to my mom. So, I stopped and bought a tablet to compose a letter of why and I'm sorry, etc, etc. Me doing that, slowed me down enough to stop and think for a second. It took me a week to decide not to do it. It took me a month to settle down.

I have a plan. But that's me. I have pets. I want them taken care of, so I know who to contact to take them. I have letters written up and in envelopes with postage ready to go. I have a place scoped out and know I get signal so I can call 911 and let them know what I'm going to do and to send a cop out there, but to expect me to be dead. And yes, I have a sure fire way to end my life. HOWEVER. Funny thing. I realized, yes, I took care of all that, but then my mom will have to go into my apartment and deal with that. Which means, I'd better sell off all my stuff and leave the minimum amount of stuff (probably mostly sentimental/personal things) and ship that off to my mom. That way, she doesn't have to go through my stuff. Because no mother should have to do that.

So please. Don't tell me I'm selfish.

Also, for those that say you just want someone to listen, that's so true. My problem is, I want someone to listen who understands and gets me. I've only met one person in my life who fit that criteria, so unfortunately, I have no one. The only thing stopping me, is me and all the stuff I need to do beforehand.

I will say this........for anyone reading this, if a friend needs you, please, please, please DO NOT guilt trip them with "what about your family?" or "what about me?" we don't need that crap and most likely it pushes us to want to do it more because obviously you're more concerned about yourself and everyone else and not me.

During my time of need, every single person who tried to stop me or talk to me, decided that guilt tripping me was the best way to save me. Stupid idea, really. Because what they said actually pushed me more and more. It made me stop taking their calls. It made me hide out. It wasn't because I felt guilty either, it was because they obviously did not get it. And not feeling understood makes things worse. So much worse.

I believe people are inherently selfish by nature. If I'm in pain, yes, I want to end it. If someone is a survivor, of course they're going to think about themselves and how it affected them. Because I have been there, if someone wants to die, I will be there for them, but I won't try to stop them if they want out. It all just depends on the person and what they truly want.

I learned, although me and bf can be suicidal and have attempted it in the past.....he sees his friend taking him to the hospital as "saving" him. He feels indebted to the that person for life. Me. If you save me, I'll probably hate you because I don't want to be saved. He's a survivor, even if he is suicidal. I'm not. There's so many levels of people who contemplate suicide. From those who only think about it but would never do it or those who plan it out completely and never do it, to those who want it and do it, planned out or not. We are not created equal and we do not see suicide as the same thing. And I think that is the problem when suicides are lumped into one category. It's not black and white, it's all very gray.

Figured I'd share since I was there twice this year. This is just one person's opinion.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:56 PM
 
Location: S. FL
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I understand suicide a little bit more now. Not all of them are selfish. But all of them are.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:27 AM
 
38 posts, read 58,571 times
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Suicide is almost always linked to a mental illness and incredible suffering that I have never experienced. I am diagnosed with long term acute depression that is controlled with medication.

Remember that mental illness is a disease - just like cancer. If one is so sick that they see no other way in order to stop the pain than death, it goes against all self-preservation instincts.

There are certain instances when suicide is a "snap decision" made in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles in life. And, there are others like "death by cop." Regardless, to call anyone selfish is a true misnomer regarding suicide. I believe the term is used to help victims of the aftermath turn grief into anger for a certain amount of time so that they can deal with the incredulous loss. I do not like the term selfish. Selfish almost always does not apply because mental illness is associated with the individual's actions.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
70,942 posts, read 66,662,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvest123 View Post
Suicide is almost always linked to a mental illness and incredible suffering that I have never experienced. I am diagnosed with long term acute depression that is controlled with medication.

Remember that mental illness is a disease - just like cancer. If one is so sick that they see no other way in order to stop the pain than death, it goes against all self-preservation instincts.

There are certain instances when suicide is a "snap decision" made in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles in life. And, there are others like "death by cop." Regardless, to call anyone selfish is a true misnomer regarding suicide. I believe the term is used to help victims of the aftermath turn grief into anger for a certain amount of time so that they can deal with the incredulous loss. I do not like the term selfish. Selfish almost always does not apply because mental illness is associated with the individual's actions.
Those are the people who dive out of high hotel windows in Atlantic City.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Columbus/East Alabama.
130 posts, read 219,708 times
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No it's not selfishness It gets on my nerves a little bit when I hear people try to pass it off as, "Oh they were selfish they didn't care about the pain they'd cause us or anybody else." that statement right there sounds selfish. I'm not new to this sort of thing and like Mighty said and I can cosign that and I can speak from experience when a person is in that state of mind they're not thinking it's almost as if all that's on you're mind is making that pain go away by any means it's not so much that they don't care about how it effects others it's more of they're so desperate to make it go away often times they choose that conclusion and that's something noone can truly understand until God forbid they go through it and no-one should have to go through that.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Utica, NY
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I'm sure many of the people who label people who label those who commit suicide as selfish are the same people who turn a blind eye to the depressed friend or family member, the coworker or classmate who everyone avoided because he/she was quiet. Either try to help people in that situation or shut the F up and stick to your perfect life.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:56 AM
 
38 posts, read 58,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Those are the people who dive out of high hotel windows in Atlantic City.
Bingo! But they are really very few. Almost 99% are related to mental illness.

Nothing about this thread is funny, but I did get the comical nature of the "windows in Atlantic City," and the movie-like stereotypical situation after gambling everything. Cute touch to a rather morbid. Even tactful. Well done.
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