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Old 11-23-2013, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
71,061 posts, read 66,840,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psichick View Post
Actually, I wonder, how many of those are drug induced craziness versus actual suicide?
I think it's more like they just lost all their money and then some. While there could be drug use involved (but then again, serious druggies aren't going to blow $200 on a hotel room in a casino--they'll stay in the sleazy motels and use whatever money they have to get high), the fact of the location makes me lean toward thinking the suicide had to do with gambling losses.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:51 PM
 
14,383 posts, read 16,207,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I lost a loved one to suicide almost five years ago. I've been told that he was very selfish and he didn't deserve to be remembered.

I am not very sure that I agree with this. Many times, the person is severely depressed and isn't in a proper mindset.

"of those who die from suicide, more than 90 percent have a diagnosable mental disorder.

People who die by suicide are frequently experiencing undiagnosed, undertreated, or untreated depression."

Facts About Mental Illness and Suicide - Mental Health Reporting - UW School of Social Work

So to say somebody who committed suicide are selfish is almost like saying being sick is selfish.

The bottom line is that nobody knows who is considering suicide sometimes. Everyone has left low, down or depressed at one point in their life, so how can anybody judge them for wanting to end their lives?

One of my grief counselor has used the term "terminal mental illness" to describe suicidal desperation. So when suicide is discussed, maybe people should be careful with the word "selfishness" because blaming and judging the suicide victim, only adds more pain and suffering to the people they left behind.

Do you believe people who committed suicide are selfish?
No. I think they are so broken at that point we can't really expect them to think rationally. For the brief period that I was suicidal, I thought i would be doing the people in my life a favor by offing myself. Your self-worth is so low at that point you can't imagine that your death would cause anyone any amount of pain. You are not rational at that point.

Ok, maybe sometimes suicide IS rational, but that's not an everyday situation. Suicide as we typically know it is not the choice of someone who is sane or healthy. It's hard to view it as selfish when there is so much self-loathing involved. I mean, selfishness is really all about putting yourself first, right? Suicide is about annihilating the self. For some people it's out of a desire to end a pain, whether physical or psychological - can we really blame someone for that, even if it's an illogical choice in many ways? (Because often that pain can be fixed, but from the suicidal person's perspective it can't be fixed.) For some people, it's about rage - I'll show them! Well, that's not exactly rational - so basically, calling it selfish is basically expecting reasonable behavior from someone who is not in possession of their reason. And that in itself is irrational.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
35,970 posts, read 23,607,860 times
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Thanks again everybody for answering this question.

I pretty much agree with all of you and I think you all made some valid points.

When my late boyfriend died, there was somebody in his family blaming me for his death. I think it is ignorant and selfish to blame the survivors. But then again, I also understand maybe blaming is a natural healing process.

Suicide is a tragedy. I am inclined to believe mental illnesses have a lot to do with suicide. Suicide is perhaps not a character flaw, it is an illness.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:11 PM
 
8,010 posts, read 7,399,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I lost a loved one to suicide almost five years ago. I've been told that he was very selfish and he didn't deserve to be remembered.

I am not very sure that I agree with this. Many times, the person is severely depressed and isn't in a proper mindset.

"of those who die from suicide, more than 90 percent have a diagnosable mental disorder.

People who die by suicide are frequently experiencing undiagnosed, undertreated, or untreated depression."

Facts About Mental Illness and Suicide - Mental Health Reporting - UW School of Social Work

So to say somebody who committed suicide are selfish is almost like saying being sick is selfish.

The bottom line is that nobody knows who is considering suicide sometimes. Everyone has left low, down or depressed at one point in their life, so how can anybody judge them for wanting to end their lives?

One of my grief counselor has used the term "terminal mental illness" to describe suicidal desperation. So when suicide is discussed, maybe people should be careful with the word "selfishness" because blaming and judging the suicide victim, only adds more pain and suffering to the people they left behind.

Do you believe people who committed suicide are selfish?
Well here's my take on it:

Those who are quick to label those who have committed suicide are really speaking from a place of anger and disgust. It's not uncommon for people to feel these emotions but they are unnecessary and really don't do anything but create a negative core within. Think about it, they have all this anger and vitriol towards a person who is dead. When the topic of suicide comes up whether online or IRL that someone (not most mind you but there's always at least one person) that always have an insult ready for the person who committed suicide with the most common being "He/she was a pathetic and weak coward" or "he/she was a selfish jerk for doing this". But if these people are spewing these insults towards the deceased, well what good is that going to do? I mean really, they are insulting a dead person. If they are trying to hurt that person's feelings or bruise their ego they will be waiting a long time. They are pretty much hurting themselves, the person who committed suicide can't really hear their insults or feel their contempt.

Personally, and maybe this is the way I process death but when someone I care about passes away, how they passed is immaterial to me. The pain and grief comes from the fact that they are gone. Whether it be by their own hand or by something or someone else. I guess for me, that just helps me pick up the pieces eventually and keep going. I could look for answers as to why someone passed away but if I never find those answers, I still have to go on with my life.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
59,206 posts, read 47,813,600 times
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I think that anyone who is in so much emotional pain that they decide to kill themselves rather than live with it, is not someone we should judge harshly. I mean, where is our empathy?

(And I'm not even including people with chronic or fatal illnesses - that's a whole other story in my opinion.)

That being said, some emotional pains are really pretty short lived in the total scope of things and it's a shame that people choose suicide, with all it's collateral damage, rather than sticking it out a bit longer. I think that maturity brings with it the knowledge that things nearly always do "get better" and that in nearly every life, there is something to be thankful for and to live for.

And I think it is the HEIGHT of hatefulness for anyone to EVER blame the survivors for someone else's suicide. Now - I am not including as "survivors" anyone who actually abused the suicide victim - I'm just talking about innocent loved ones who may not have known how to truly help the depressed and desperate victim.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
35,970 posts, read 23,607,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
And I think it is the HEIGHT of hatefulness for anyone to EVER blame the survivors for someone else's suicide. Now - I am not including as "survivors" anyone who actually abused the suicide victim - I'm just talking about innocent loved ones who may not have known how to truly help the depressed and desperate victim.
Blame the survivors is unfortunately a very common thing. I have been blamed for my loved one's suicide. They blamed me for not knowing the suicide warning sign.

Unfortunately, suicide grief is a very complicated grief unlike the natural and normal (for lack of a better word) grief.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:05 PM
 
8,010 posts, read 7,399,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Blame the survivors is unfortunately a very common thing. I have been blamed for my loved one's suicide. They blamed me for not knowing the suicide warning sign.

Unfortunately, suicide grief is a very complicated grief unlike the natural and normal (for lack of a better word) grief.
I think it is low-down how people blamed you for your SO's death.

Blame does absolutely nothing but make everything worse. When a love one dies, as horrible as we feel we must remember that we are not alone in our grief and the people that blamed you didn't realize that.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:09 PM
 
2,546 posts, read 6,491,202 times
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Definitely not. I think about it.
Life is hard and exhausting.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:18 PM
 
766 posts, read 1,278,552 times
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I'm not going to read all 9 pgs of this thread. Let's put this into some perspective....

If you are suffering from ADVANCED cancer, and the pain, etc is BAD.... can you really BLAME them? If you think they are the selfish ones... I got news for ya.... YOU ARE! I can't for the life of me, imagine expecting somebody to remain alive, in pure agony and misery... just to SATISFY ME???? REALLY????

How about those 3 women in Ohio... the ones that were held capative for over a decade by a sexual psycopath. Could you blame them IF THEY decided to commit suicide to end their TORTURE???

My elderly Mother was already Mentally Ill. Then you add a severe form of Dementia.... Oh man oh man.... talk about insanely BAD! She spent the last 4 yrs of her life BELIEVING that people were trying to kill her, rape her, poison her food, eletrocute her, steal from her, and the list goes on.

Do you SERIOUSLY consider this QUALITY of Life????

It's easy to JUDGE THE OTHERS... the ones that did it.... but put yourself in THEIR PLACE.... when's the last time you experienced that much emotional/physical or life pain?
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:39 PM
 
4,081 posts, read 4,845,134 times
Reputation: 4930
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I lost a loved one to suicide almost five years ago. I've been told that he was very selfish and he didn't deserve to be remembered.

I am not very sure that I agree with this. Many times, the person is severely depressed and isn't in a proper mindset.

"of those who die from suicide, more than 90 percent have a diagnosable mental disorder.

People who die by suicide are frequently experiencing undiagnosed, undertreated, or untreated depression."

Facts About Mental Illness and Suicide - Mental Health Reporting - UW School of Social Work

So to say somebody who committed suicide are selfish is almost like saying being sick is selfish.

The bottom line is that nobody knows who is considering suicide sometimes. Everyone has left low, down or depressed at one point in their life, so how can anybody judge them for wanting to end their lives?

One of my grief counselor has used the term "terminal mental illness" to describe suicidal desperation. So when suicide is discussed, maybe people should be careful with the word "selfishness" because blaming and judging the suicide victim, only adds more pain and suffering to the people they left behind.

Do you believe people who committed suicide are selfish?
I think your aunt is very small minded to call a person who passed away and obviously suffered from mental illness "selfish." I had a family member who committed suicide, someone very close.

Calling someone who is suicidal selfish is one thing that ticks me off the most.

Let's get to the real issues. Have people considered the context to how and why people feel suicidal? It's not all that ****ing black and white. Get Real.
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