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I decided to create this thread based on a thread I added my thoughts to in the Great Debates section.
I wanted to discuss the actual psychology behind poverty, i.e. what causes people to be trapped in poverty for generations with only 30% or less advancing to the next social class up. The thread touched on loss of hope and I think that's the crux of it. When you have little or no hope, the typical bootstrapper advice simply doesn't apply to people who don't have many (or any) choices.
I feel that combined with loss of hope and being unable to believe in oneself, additional factors causing depression may be the "hitting a brick wall" type feeling that you are bombarded with images of what's the middle class and wealthy have (nice noises in the safe suburbs, expensive clothes and cars) that you become frustrated and bitter that while those things are rubbed in your face, the spark of motivation needed to make it in life simply isn't there (probably never was).
I also feel that people are by and large the products of the environments in which they are raised. Mike who grew up in middle class suburban America is bound to have a much better outlook on life than John who was born in an inner city ghetto. Generally if you grew up among daisies you will smell daisies, if you grew up in crap, you'll mostly just smell crap.
Parenting is another huge factor. Growing up in a broken home will also make life much harder for you. I don't think that middle class and wealthy people understand this concept, how parenting provides an individual with the foundations they need in which to build on, that many poor people grow up in broken homes.
You hear the rags to riches tales, but generally those that make it are either lucky or they possess a lot of mental strength in order to climb the ladder. Most people do not have that kind of drive, yet I am constantly annoyed by the "I did it so everyone can do it" attitude.
So I thought I'd put a few of my ideas out there to get a debate steered. As I would rather focus on the psychology behind poverty, I chose this forum as I don't want it to turn into another political discussion.
I don't know that I can agree with your "theory" about growing up with crap you learn only to want crap (or however you said it )
My father was orphaned after living through his parent's ugly divorce and then grew up with his grandparents. Grandma had an 8th grade education. Grandpa only had a third grade education. They were not big readers, not intellectuals, not sophisticated in any way. But somehow their very humble loving home inspired my dad to greatness and several degrees, including his phD.
Go figure.
Sorry, you sound like you have a case of sour grapes.
I don't know that I can agree with your "theory" about growing up with crap you learn only to want crap (or however you said it )
My father was orphaned after living through his parent's ugly divorce and then grew up with his grandparents. Grandma had an 8th grade education. Grandpa only had a third grade education. They were not big readers, not intellectuals, not sophisticated in any way. But somehow their very humble loving home inspired my dad to greatness and several degrees, including his phD.
Go figure.
Sorry, you sound like you have a case of sour grapes.
Is there any reason for the snide remark in your last sentence? What "sour grapes" are you talking about?
Is there any reason for the snide remark in your last sentence? What "sour grapes" are you talking about?
Wasn't being snide, was giving an honest response to statements you made, like these...
I feel that combined with loss of hope and being unable to believe in oneself...
feeling that you are bombarded with images of what's the middle class and wealthy have (nice noises in the safe suburbs, expensive clothes and cars)
that you become frustrated and bitter that while those things are rubbed in your face, the spark of motivation needed to make it in life simply isn't there.
Wasn't being snide, was giving an honest response to statements you made, like these...
I feel that combined with loss of hope and being unable to believe in oneself...
feeling that you are bombarded with images of what's the middle class and wealthy have (nice noises in the safe suburbs, expensive clothes and cars)
that you become frustrated and bitter that while those things are rubbed in your face, the spark of motivation needed to make it in life simply isn't there.
that just reek of envy, jealousy and self-pity.
Clearly you just jump to conclusions, but i did not grow up in poverty nor do I envy anyone. You seem like a typical forum jerk who just wants to start a fight. I'll just block you to avoid that as this is a waste of time.
Clearly you just jump to conclusions, but i did not grow up in poverty nor do I envy anyone. You seem like a typical forum jerk who just wants to start a fight. I'll just block you to avoid that as this is a waste of time.
I am only reading what you yourself have written , including "I am constantly annoyed by the "I did it so everyone can do it" attitude."
Sorry, that still sounds like sour grapes to me.
If anyone is jumping to conclusions I think it's you.
America has abandoned its poor. One of my parents was born into grinding poverty, but got out of it by getting college scholarships, going to law school on scholarships, and getting a great job. That's a lot harder to do these days. The fact that it's harder to do can discourage some people, but not everyone.
Let me tell you, growing up amid cr@p is a powerful motivator to fight your way out of cr@p and never look back.
Clearly you just jump to conclusions, but i did not grow up in poverty nor do I envy anyone. You seem like a typical forum jerk who just wants to start a fight. I'll just block you to avoid that as this is a waste of time.
Is that how you "debate"? Block people who disagree with you?
There are a couple of other things that play into future success, following poverty. A person living in situational poverty - a formerly middle class, divorced mom, with no child support - is more likely to pull themselves out of it. They know the "rules" to make it in middle class society. Someone living in generational poverty - nobody in their family has ever made it out of the "projects" - is more likely to stay there. Street rules are necessary for their survival, but don't translate well off the streets. There will always be the exceptions, who make it out no matter what.
The other thing that seems to make a difference is generational improvement. In my family, many people in my great grandparents' generation did not complete high school. They were needed on the family farms. My grandparents finished high school. The men of my parents' generation (in my family) completed college, the women did not. In my generation there is only one cousin who did not complete college.
Even though I come from poor farm families, there was always the idea that you accomplish as much as you can - or want to.
Those who remain in poverty tend to not have people around them, showing them options, and helping discover how to put their talents to use. I had a number of students every year who were going to go to "collage" to become "peditricans" or open their own "pidnes" (business). These were 9th graders. Someone had told them what they "should" do to become rich, but nobody had addressed their abilities and realistic job options. When asked if they had any other plans, it was generally something along the lines of "clean houses with my mom." I think the all or nothing mentality keeps a lot of young people in poverty. They don't have any idea of the good jobs they could get that don't require college.
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, including "I am constantly annoyed by the "I did it so everyone can do it" attitude." 
