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I don't agree either but I remember from marriage counseling that men often feel they need to fix anything we vent about and if they think we should fix it ourselves tend to not be empathetic as a result. Even after marriage counseling my dh still doesn't get that I am not asking him to fix my problems when I vent. I'm just venting to let off steam.
The funny thing is I often get the same reaction here when I vent here so I think it's more than just a marriage thing. I teach and there are days/things that are very frustrating about the profession that I know I can't change but that doesn't change that my stress meter goes up because of them so I vent but it often ends up with the thread being an attack because I don't fix the unfixable problem. Not listening to others vent is lack of empathy. We all have things in our lives that we're not going to change for one reason or another but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to let off steam about them.
I'll give you a real life example. A coworker of mine informed me that I no longer have the right to complain about my lot with my boss because I turned down another job offer. I turned it down because I thought it would put me in a worse position. Because I turned down jumping from the frying pan into the fire, she told me I now have to just accept whatever happens where I am and grin and bear it. IMO that's a strange view and one that shows a lack of empathy. I suppose if I'd jumped from the frying pan into the fire I would not have had the right to vent about my struggles with that job either in her mind because I chose it. Never mind that the choice is between two things I don't want. If I don't vent, I explode. Pretending everything is fine is a lousy coping mechanism for anyone. Pretending everything is fine and nothing bothers you doesn't make it fine or stop it from bothering you.
I think people have just been raised to think only of themselves and see others venting as imposing on them. I think those who have their own problems are too caught up in their own problems and those who think life is grand don't want anyone to rain on their parade. I think life was better when we lent a caring ear. I don't think we'll ever get back to that. It's not PC to raise your kids to put others first and that's what you'd have to do. I remember getting out the good towels and the good dishes when company came. You took the time to show them around and listen to them. You baked a cake. You put your best out for company but when you were company others did the same for you and I'm not talking just rare visits from relatives. I can remember my mom saying things like "Don't you think you should offer your guest something to eat or drink?" if I had a friend over after school and I remember their parents doing the same when I was in their home. It was expected you offered something to a guest. Those little gestures that make people feel special are gone because we're just too self centered as a society. We have too many people who were raised to think they are special who have their nose out of joint because life isn't treating them special.
If you're looking for empathy, from others, whether it be getting a traffic fine, losing your job, not being able to find a job, your inability to quit smoking, the sad plight of sex offenders released from prison, and nothing is forthcoming, repeatedly, it sets the stage for not having empathy with others as well. I guess you might call it a form of revenge.
There's always that temptation!
If I get a speeding ticket, and all I hear is: You shouldn't have been speeding, no sympathy from me!, you sort of wait anxiously for the other person to get a traffic fine and smear mud in his face! Then it's your turn: You shouldn't have been speeding, no sympathy from me!
Anytime I see someone pulled over by the police, my heart goes out to them, given how expensive many traffic fines are today. I see someone pulled over, and I think: Perhaps this unemployed father, of 3 kids, was speeding to a job interview, and now? With that hefty fine to pay, those children are going to be eating Ramen noodles for a week or 2! Or: He's been delaying necessary repairs to that car, and now there's no money for repairs!
And people never inquire if you get a DUI, what your blood alcohol level was. Doesn't matter! You could have only registered a fraction of a percent over the legal limit, and still you're roasted over the fires! You may as well have had 2 extra drinks, and registered twice the legal limit, since a DUI is a DUI!
I agree those could be part of the reasons sometimes we don't feel empathy as often as we think we should. We(humans in general) have conflicted ideas and values and we sound hypocritical and selfish at times
I think part of the problem is the concept of justice and thinking it's always "good vs bad guys" or like you said if I got judged unfairly and got no empathy from anybody, you should be judged harshly too, that should bring some justice to the world". "Why just me". Misery loves company, I guess it brings some kind of social justice in our minds when we don't feel singled out.
I don't agree either but I remember from marriage counseling that men often feel they need to fix anything we vent about and if they think we should fix it ourselves tend to not be empathetic as a result. Even after marriage counseling my dh still doesn't get that I am not asking him to fix my problems when I vent. I'm just venting to let off steam.
The funny thing is I often get the same reaction here when I vent here so I think it's more than just a marriage thing. I teach and there are days/things that are very frustrating about the profession that I know I can't change but that doesn't change that my stress meter goes up because of them so I vent but it often ends up with the thread being an attack because I don't fix the unfixable problem. Not listening to others vent is lack of empathy. We all have things in our lives that we're not going to change for one reason or another but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to let off steam about them.
I'll give you a real life example. A coworker of mine informed me that I no longer have the right to complain about my lot with my boss because I turned down another job offer. I turned it down because I thought it would put me in a worse position. Because I turned down jumping from the frying pan into the fire, she told me I now have to just accept whatever happens where I am and grin and bear it. IMO that's a strange view and one that shows a lack of empathy. I suppose if I'd jumped from the frying pan into the fire I would not have had the right to vent about my struggles with that job either in her mind because I chose it. Never mind that the choice is between two things I don't want. If I don't vent, I explode. Pretending everything is fine is a lousy coping mechanism for anyone. Pretending everything is fine and nothing bothers you doesn't make it fine or stop it from bothering you.
I think people have just been raised to think only of themselves and see others venting as imposing on them. I think those who have their own problems are too caught up in their own problems and those who think life is grand don't want anyone to rain on their parade. I think life was better when we lent a caring ear. I don't think we'll ever get back to that. It's not PC to raise your kids to put others first and that's what you'd have to do. I remember getting out the good towels and the good dishes when company came. You took the time to show them around and listen to them. You baked a cake. You put your best out for company but when you were company others did the same for you and I'm not talking just rare visits from relatives. I can remember my mom saying things like "Don't you think you should offer your guest something to eat or drink?" if I had a friend over after school and I remember their parents doing the same when I was in their home. It was expected you offered something to a guest. Those little gestures that make people feel special are gone because we're just too self centered as a society. We have too many people who were raised to think they are special who have their nose out of joint because life isn't treating them special.
But I think we are all like that to some degree. I think this idea that it's always other people who are the problem is the exact reason why people cannot understand each other. Think about, how come people irl and in forums are always complaining about the selfishness of others? Is it statistically possible that we actually know the only few good people left in our society?
I think it is true some people don't want others to ruin their parade but I don't think the root of their feelings is selfishness. Sometimes people feel fear and want to protect their perfect fair world where everything happens for a reason. So when something bad happens to me, it's bad luck but when something happens to others it's because they brought it on themselves.
Many times we are missing most of the facts when we make judgments about other people. Then in those cases when we realize we were wrong we sweep it under the rug by justifying our carelessness instead of realizing that we made a mistake and that maybe next time we could try giving others the benefit of the doubt.
Some really pathetic people out there like to draw attention to themselves by exploiting other people's weaknesses, poor decisions or tragedies.
I'm not talking about the people who use their problems to get attention . I'm talking about third parties who know the poor suffering soul doesn't want the attention, but they talk about that person so they themselves can be seen on the news or wherever.
I sometimes visit a site about sociopaths and their victims. From the discussion there it sounds like sociopathic behavior is on the rise.
I guess this strikes me personally as I was falsely accused of something and still get harassed as if I were guilty.
Did you hear about the poor guy in England who was killed by his neighbors, who then torched his body?
No matter what that poor guy did, he was wrong.
From the bullying sites I follow I get the impression that adult bullying is on the rise as well. And there is really nothing the law can do until you are physically harmed and it is way too late.
I blame the news media as well. I stopped watching televised news about 5 years ago. Not that the newspapers are any better!
It just kills me, when there's a bombing in Iraq, or there's a near fatal car accident, and the media minimizes or ignores the plight of the injured.
My empathy is not with the killed, my heart goes out to the injured! 200 injured in a bombing in Irag! Think about it! Having one of your limbs blown away, blinded, deafened, left a cripple the rest of your life in a 3rd world country! Who is to take care of you!!! What kind of life lies ahead for these people!!!
Same with car accidents: My thoughts are always with the injured! Not the dead! Being left disabled, suffering in pain for how long!!! I work in a LTC/Rehab facility, and there's one couple, who had been in a near fatal car accident, and they were in Rehab for a whole year! Pain, Pain! And even after that, life will never be the same! And some are left paraplegics, quadriplegics!
the word is BUZZED n I don't think we should have empathy for something done wrong or breaking a law. If you drink - don't drive or face the consequences. and there should be NO empathy for rightful consequences
I'm not about to open up a 55-gallon drum of worms with someone who's mindset revolves around the law-is-the-law-is-the-law-is-the-law. I see no potential for empathy with this line of thinking!
Let me conclude, as opposed to bringing out the worms: A college degree gives one the license to steal, "break the law", legally!
Last edited by tijlover; 12-07-2013 at 10:15 PM..
Reason: change wording
quote- college degree gives one the license to steal, "break the law", legally!
Dont know where you are going with that one,,, attorneys? to me- the law is broken once you hurt or endanger another member of society, in one form or another,,, I cannot comment on all the little intricate paper laws like corporate or tax stuff etc etc, which I am sure could even be worse. That is over my paygrade.
I've noticed that many tend to be judgmental, exploitative, or insensitive when listening to other people's problems/inner struggles. Instead of really trying to understand where the other person is coming from, some see it as an opportunity to judge, exploit (opportunists), or criticize.
Why is that so? And has this phenomenon been worsening in recent times?
And what advice would you give to those looking to improve in this arena?
.
It's usually because it hurts them to hear that person's criticism. Many feel that people who have a struggle should get over it and stop trying to put blame on others when in actuality it is just them trying to get a voice out. Many times people are okay withe the 'status quo' because they are doing fine but when someone comes along who is not, it would mean they would have to change their outlook and stance on it. This makes them scared and retaliate in a defensive manner.
I think the best advice would be to stop talking and just listen. So often people just immediately start arguing or tuning out someone with a different view or a problem. If someone is having a struggle, it is best to at least listen and try to understand where they are coming from. It requires you to think and reflect intensively, so it will not be easy, but keep on, you must keep trying!
I've noticed that many tend to be judgmental, exploitative, or insensitive when listening to other people's problems/inner struggles. Instead of really trying to understand where the other person is coming from, some see it as an opportunity to judge, exploit (opportunists), or criticize.
Why is that so? And has this phenomenon been worsening in recent times?
And what advice would you give to those looking to improve in this arena?
.
VGravitas, it is getting worse. Personally, I believe it's our culture. There is very much a sink or swim, overly competitive attitude towards most things in this country. With that comes an "I must be better than and beat you at everything just to win and get the prize" perception of jobs, school, sports, dating, etc. I don't see it changing anytime soon, either! lol
Only thing you can do is surround yourself with good people, raise your kids to have empathy and compassion for others (take them to volunteer for various causes and get them a pet so they know how to show empathy and compassion towards living creatures who are at their mercy).
That's all you can do, my dear, unless you have the money and ability to relocate to another Western nation.
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IMO that's a strange view and one that shows a lack of empathy. I suppose if I'd jumped from the frying pan into the fire I would not have had the right to vent about my struggles with that job either in her mind because I chose it. Never mind that the choice is between two things I don't want. If I don't vent, I explode. Pretending everything is fine is a lousy coping mechanism for anyone. Pretending everything is fine and nothing bothers you doesn't make it fine or stop it from bothering you.
