How do you see the differences between Aspergers and NPD (counselor, narcissists)

[mateo45]

Narcissism/NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) seems to be receiving a lot more attention nowadays, usually due to dealing with the typical more "challenging" behaviors like the characteristic lack of empathy and accountability, hyper-defensiveness, or treating relationships and others impersonally as "things" to be used.

But Aspergers folks (aka, high functioning Autistics), also share many, but not all of the same characteristics, at least as clinically described.

List of Asperger Traits / List of Narcissism Traits

On a personal note, I was married to a clinically diagnosed NPD, and these days following retirement I do some volunteer work with disabled adults, most of whom have been diagnosed with everything from Downes to ADHD, OCD, Schizophrenia and Autism. And not coincidentally, the management, technical, and administrative side of this field often seems to attract a lot of Asperger's folks (and probably more than a few undiagnosed NPD's too…lol)!

But along with more public awareness, there also seems to be a lot of misunderstanding re: the differences between NPD and Asperger's in particular, which are by many estimates, both on the increase. So in your own experience, how do you feel we should understand, and deal with the differences, which most of us probably encounter in one form or another in everyday life?

[Sugah Ray]

Yeah I guess both that element where they are lack interest in others.

What usually amazes me about my narcissist mother is the excessive use of cognitive biases to justify her grandiose image. I don't thing there is a single cognitive bias she hasn't used. I am not so sure she is just fooling other people, I think she also fools herself. It's like she lives in her own little world where she controls every reality and when there is conflicting information she just dismisses it.

It seems to me like both narcissists and people with Aspergers are not interested in (or don't require) getting as much input as other people to create their ideas and their realities.

[tamajane]

Asperger's is an actual condition and can even be worked with but NP is just a personality type that is distasteful. There is nothing physically or chemically wrong with narcissists, they cannot be cured or changed anymore than sexuality or race can be changed.

[mateo45]

^ ^ Good point that Asperger's folks have a much better ability to be "edu-macated" in some of the "social graces" than NPD's, who usually just think they 'know it all' and could give a rip how others feel anyway. Although IMO the difficult part is getting past Asperger's almost painful hyper-defensiveness, and that's after just recognizing which type you're dealing with!

[cloven]

This is a side issue, because so far as I know, this isn't addressed by DSM-5 (though I may be incorrect).
Sensory under or over responsiveness (hypersensitivity or hyposensitivity) is a frequent symptom of Asperger's Syndrome, and to my knowledge, is not correlated with NPD.
Sensory stimuli (which most other people find innocuous) being too noisy, too bright, too pungent, too itchy, etc. is often a stressor that folks with Asperger's struggle with and suffer from,
yet it's not the sort of thing that many people (without such reactions) take seriously. So that could be one way to distinguish the diagnoses from each other.

I have Asperger's, and I've asked my treatment team if they think I'm a narcissist-they said that if I'm worrying about being one, then I'm probably not one.
That when I express feeling guilt, embarrassment, and other concerns about my social interaction and how I handled my dealings with someone else,
then that signals to my counselors that I'm not a narcissist (or a bunch of other labels that I would feel carry more stigma & blame).
Sure I'm selfish, I believe everyone is-but we all differ in how much we temper that urge, and how we respond to feedback from our circle of personal relationships.

[mateo45]

^ ^ Thanks for posting, and agreed that you don't sound like a narcissist, who usually don't do much "self-reflection" anyway. BTW, I forget about the extra sensitivity to stimuli, which is also probably a good 'clue' re: the differences. And for whatever it's worth, dunno whether you've ever heard of this young fellow, who was initially diagnosed with Autism/Asperger's. Amazing kid, and 60 Minutes does an update on him every few years!

CBS News - Jake: Math prodigy proud of his autism

[JrzDefector]

My father is a narcissist. When told he has a problem, his response is "Yeah, I know. But this is the way I am - deal with it." He doesn't care.

A person with Asperger's (like cloven) will learn that they have a problem and want to fix it or address it.

[Sugah Ray]

Originally Posted by JrzDefector

My father is a narcissist. When told he has a problem, his response is "Yeah, I know. But this is the way I am - deal with it." He doesn't care.

A person with Asperger's (like cloven) will learn that they have a problem and want to fix it or address it.

But I wonder does your father know he is not as great as he claims he is or does he think he is great and that he is entitled to feel superior because he is THAT great?

I feel like most narcissists belong to the second group so in my opinion they still lack awareness because they are incapable of picking up the truth from others. Non-narcissists know they are not "that great" because others in society inform them. The narcissists ignore those clues and blame others for their failures.

Maybe narcissism is some type of aspergers disorder, like a subset. Instead of focusing on an specific subject or task they focus on their ego.

[JrzDefector]

Originally Posted by Sugah Ray

But I wonder does your father know he is not as great as he claims he is or does he think he is great and that he is entitled to feel superior because he is THAT great?

I feel like most narcissists belong to the second group so in my opinion they still lack awareness because they are incapable of picking up the truth from others. Non-narcissists know they are not "that great" because others in society inform them. The narcissists ignore those clues and blame others for their failures.

Maybe narcissism is some type of aspergers disorder, like a subset. Instead of focusing on an specific subject or task they focus on their ego.

Truthfully, Pop doesn't care about realities other than his own. The only reason he gives ANY consideration to criticism that comes from me is because he sees me as an extension of himself. He fully believes he is as great as he claims.

The idea of NPD as a variant of Aspberger's is interesting, but while people with Aspberger's can genuinely improve, people with NPD generally do not. They can learn behaviors that make them more functional, but I don't think they ever fully integrate those changes into their actual personality. And I'd say most of the time those changes are made in order for them to get something they want more.

[mateo45]

The unfolding neurobiological aspect of this subject is an interesting one, and the human brain itself is constantly evolving. For example the pre-frontal cortex is unique to primates, with the neo-cortex apparently the newest part of the brain, from an evolutionary standpoint. And perhaps 'coincidentally', the neo-cortex is also the location of the ability to experience 'empathy'.

BTW, some research points to a phenomenon called "capturing the mother's eye", which seems to be an essential step in an infant's early brain development, determining whether the capacity for feeling empathy somehow becomes 'hard-wired' (or not).

And there are even some controversial theories suggesting that current conditions like ADHD, Autism, Schizophrenia (and perhaps even NPD/BPD), may just be 'other states of mind' along a whole continuum of human brain evolution.

Is the human brain still evolving?