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BS Finance, MBA, CIA. No. I an business educated and perhaps its the drug company angle that gets me the most. I mean, who hasn't had these silly commercials with a million side effects pounded into their head over and over and over? Its almost as bad as the for profit college commercials airing between breaks from the Steve Wilkos show.
Interestingly enough there was a post about a person praising bodybuilding over drugs who has depression, so maybe im not as arrogant and wrong as you think.
In other words you don't have a medical leg to stand on....
That's what I thought.
Sorry but I'll take my nieces opinion over yours. She's studied depression for years and treated many depressed patients.
Given the side effects of the anti depressants, I don't buy the drug company angle. Seems to me there is great risk in misuse of their products. Now if you want to talk conspiracy, just look at the vitamin industry and the plethora of "cholesterol lowering foods" when research on cholesterol was limited to men (because women appear to self adjust before menopause) and they found that only a small percent can actually impact their cholesterol through diet yet it's marketed to EVERYONE.
There is a reason, though. You have just not discovered it. It could be a core wound that has not been processed, negative thinking loops that you are unconscious of that perpetuate negative feeling states, etc. There is some REASON . . . and it is up to you to find out what it is.
Depression is not a primary condition. It is usually rage turned inward . . . or it could be unprocessed grief.
Yes. And that's why masking it with drugs doesn't solve the problem. People need to face what's bothering them, come to terms with it. It's not so much that there isn't such an illness, it's that more and more drugs isn't the answer. Happy pills don't address the grief and rage.
All the billions of dollars being spent on drugs and depression and suicide rates are only increasing.
BS Finance, MBA, CIA. No. I an business educated and perhaps its the drug company angle that gets me the most. I mean, who hasn't had these silly commercials with a million side effects pounded into their head over and over and over? Its almost as bad as the for profit college commercials airing between breaks from the Steve Wilkos show.
Interestingly enough there was a post about a person praising bodybuilding over drugs who has depression, so maybe im not as arrogant and wrong as you think.
But that it's not just depression drugs, that is every drug with a TV commercial. In that case your issue is with the pharma industry. Do you think most diseases, especially mental diseases were created by the pharma industry? I don't suffer from depression and have never taken such drugs but I have taken some of those drugs they announce on TV with those long lists of side effects.
At least in my case I have the same side effects they claim the drugs has. I have experienced some of the common side effects and have never experienced those "rare" side effects. I am not a pill junkie and even try to avoid taking pain killers even though I suffer from migraines but I know in my case those drugs I took fixed or relieved the problem.
I had to deal once with a bipolar person who needed our help otherwise he was gonna end up back in jail. Thanks to informed people who understood that mental illness is real, someone called our mental health hospital and he was institutionalized instead of being kept in jail. Medication help him like it has helped many people, he lives a normal life but he has to take medication as long as he lives otherwise he will end up in trouble. I had to visit him at the mental hospital and I saw the other patients. Some were just crying, they were not trying to get attention. Their suffering was real.
You are college educated. You should know about critical thinking and statistics. Would you hire a biologist to build your car or a lawyer to perform an open heart surgery? Would you trust an architect with zero economics background if he told you he knows how to fix the economy? Why do people with so little knowledge in the mental health field feel like they are qualified when they don't deal with this kind of patients on a regular basis, when they haven't checked enough scientific studies and when they don't have enough education or data to support their "theories"?
Yes. And that's why masking it with drugs doesn't solve the problem. People need to face what's bothering them, come to terms with it. It's not so much that there isn't such an illness, it's that more and more drugs isn't the answer. Happy pills don't address the grief and rage.
All the billions of dollars being spent on drugs and depression and suicide rates are only increasing.
So, what say you about post partum depression? Is it the fact that you had a baby the "problem" you are not facing??
Ridiculous. Most of you posters are uneducated and uninformed and don't even read the newspaper yet alone a medical journal. Depression is a medical illness and the "anger turned inward" theory is more than 50 years old. Try to keep up.
So, what say you about post partum depression? Is it the fact that you had a baby the "problem" you are not facing??
Ridiculous. Most of you posters are uneducated and uninformed and don't even read the newspaper yet alone a medical journal. Depression is a medical illness and the "anger turned inward" theory is more than 50 years old. Try to keep up.
It might be real but drugs aren't helping since depression and suicide rates are going up. Drugs just cover up the problem. A lot of people that commit suicide were on drugs like prozac.
I have known several people over the years who claim they have a mental illness and take medication to treat their depression. Problem is, all of these people are still depressed and never seem to nail down that perfect drug or perfect combination of drugs to cure themselves or treat the illness to the point they can say they are less depressed. This is because there is no cure for a mythological illness, I think depression is simply a copout and making people into legal drug addicts on meds that can many times make matters worse up to and including suicide. Get clean, its not working. There isn't a cure because its a state of mind for those who believe a pill can make them cope with life, the answer is within and requires belief in oneself and the power of their minds.
I don't believe in the myth of depression, the biggest mental health problem of our time. The problem is a lack of initiative, looking for an easy way out and buying into the 'chemical imbalance' BS. I call BS.
Discuss...
Not much to discuss with you. You're too narrow minded, and claim to have already seen all the people who were ever depressed. Evidently you see depression as a weakness; science sees it very differently.
All this talk of masking depression with drugs is just more uninformed internet nonsense.
Depression hurts.
But stupidity reigns.
But that it's not just depression drugs, that is every drug with a TV commercial. In that case your issue is with the pharma industry. Do you think most diseases, especially mental diseases were created by the pharma industry? I don't suffer from depression and have never taken such drugs but I have taken some of those drugs they announce on TV with those long lists of side effects.
At least in my case I have the same side effects they claim the drugs has. I have experienced some of the common side effects and have never experienced those "rare" side effects. I am not a pill junkie and even try to avoid taking pain killers even though I suffer from migraines but I know in my case those drugs I took fixed or relieved the problem.
I had to deal once with a bipolar person who needed our help otherwise he was gonna end up back in jail. Thanks to informed people who understood that mental illness is real, someone called our mental health hospital and he was institutionalized instead of being kept in jail. Medication help him like it has helped many people, he lives a normal life but he has to take medication as long as he lives otherwise he will end up in trouble. I had to visit him at the mental hospital and I saw the other patients. Some were just crying, they were not trying to get attention. Their suffering was real.
You are college educated. You should know about critical thinking and statistics. Would you hire a biologist to build your car or a lawyer to perform an open heart surgery? Would you trust an architect with zero economics background if he told you he knows how to fix the economy? Why do people with so little knowledge in the mental health field feel like they are qualified when they don't deal with this kind of patients on a regular basis, when they haven't checked enough scientific studies and when they don't have enough education or data to support their "theories"?
A friend of mine has a sister with schizophrenia. One of their older brothers, who is what we call a "professional student", told her that "she didn't need all of that medication". He garnered this from a course that he took called "Psychology in Movies". So, she stopped taking the meds, and is wandering the streets. My friend has not been able to find her for days at a time. She's been found sitting at the bus stop, on a bench in front of the grocery store, without shoes, etc. The mother is devoutly religious and is in deep denial that there is anything wrong with her daughter. Truly a sad situation.
Yes. And that's why masking it with drugs doesn't solve the problem. People need to face what's bothering them, come to terms with it. It's not so much that there isn't such an illness, it's that more and more drugs isn't the answer. Happy pills don't address the grief and rage.
All the billions of dollars being spent on drugs and depression and suicide rates are only increasing.
The truth is that meds are not a slam dunk but they can be incredibly helpful, sometimes short term, sometimes longer term, depending on the individual.
I am old enough to remember the excitement and controversy when the first SSRI, Prozac, was introduced. It was heralded as a new age in mental health outcomes -- and it turned out not to be. That doesn't mean it has NO value, just that it didn't live up to the overblown hype and hope of its unveiling.
One problem is that to this day we only dimly understand how SSRIs even help with depression. There is a growing sense that dopamine has been neglected in favor of serotonin -- indeed, that the interaction of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and other neurotransmitters would have to be far better understood to concoct individualized meds for a particular person's needs.
I also have seen how some parts of the mental health system, e.g., less progressive mental health bureaucracies in some counties and states, saw a purely pharmacological approach as an easy answer to "managing" people in their care. And this was and is encouraged by "big pharma".
None of this however invalidates that medication is an important part of treatment for many mental disorders in most people. As is "facing what's bother you and coming to terms with it". Indeed, medication can help a person do that very thing, at least initially. I tend to see it as getting a person over the hump, so to speak. Yes, in a society accustomed to the search for the proverbial silver bullet, some people do look for easy answers in a pill when in almost all cases a great deal of personal discipline and retraining are also required. Actuaries and bean-counters find the idea that simply dispensing the correct drugs fixes everything, to be a pleasing idea. It reinforces the wrong-headed notions behind the often retrograde mental health coverage clauses in many health insurance plans -- you are expected to get well in six or twelve or twenty-six weeks, or you're just some kind of deadbeat.
At any rate ... I guess I'm basically agreeing with you, malamute, but with the caution that drugs are not a Bad Thing, only our foolish hope that drugs are the Only Thing.
It might be real but drugs aren't helping since depression and suicide rates are going up. Drugs just cover up the problem. A lot of people that commit suicide were on drugs like prozac.
This article here provides more information WRT antidepressants and suicide:
Just because some people have committed suicide while they were on SSRIs doesn't necessarily mean that SSRIs don't work, or that they caused the suicides. There are risks with any type of medication. That doesn't mean that numerous people aren't helped by these medications.
One thing that would be helpful is if people would heed the warnings on these medications, and consult a health professional if they do have suicidal thoughts or any other side effects. Another thing that would be helpful is if people would quit referring to these medications as "happy pills" or "quick fixes". It's not at all like taking an aspirin or an antibiotic. People think that they are being clever by referring to antidepressants as such, but all they do is perpetuate the belief that one will seek immediate relief by taking the drug. No, no, no. They can take weeks to work, and they don't make people "happy"; they help the person taking the drug "cut through the fog", so to speak, and become amenable to counseling and other activities that will help them manage their condition. I've even told friends of mine to keep in mind that the meds are but just one part of getting better.
The truth is that meds are not a slam dunk but they can be incredibly helpful, sometimes short term, sometimes longer term, depending on the individual.
I am old enough to remember the excitement and controversy when the first SSRI, Prozac, was introduced. It was heralded as a new age in mental health outcomes -- and it turned out not to be. That doesn't mean it has NO value, just that it didn't live up to the overblown hype and hope of its unveiling.
One problem is that to this day we only dimly understand how SSRIs even help with depression. There is a growing sense that dopamine has been neglected in favor of serotonin -- indeed, that the interaction of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and other neurotransmitters would have to be far better understood to concoct individualized meds for a particular person's needs.
I also have seen how some parts of the mental health system, e.g., less progressive mental health bureaucracies in some counties and states, saw a purely pharmacological approach as an easy answer to "managing" people in their care. And this was and is encouraged by "big pharma".
None of this however invalidates that medication is an important part of treatment for many mental disorders in most people. As is "facing what's bother you and coming to terms with it". Indeed, medication can help a person do that very thing, at least initially. I tend to see it as getting a person over the hump, so to speak. Yes, in a society accustomed to the search for the proverbial silver bullet, some people do look for easy answers in a pill when in almost all cases a great deal of personal discipline and retraining are also required. Actuaries and bean-counters find the idea that simply dispensing the correct drugs fixes everything, to be a pleasing idea. It reinforces the wrong-headed notions behind the often retrograde mental health coverage clauses in many health insurance plans -- you are expected to get well in six or twelve or twenty-six weeks, or you're just some kind of deadbeat.
At any rate ... I guess I'm basically agreeing with you, malamute, but with the caution that drugs are not a Bad Thing, only our foolish hope that drugs are the Only Thing.
Thank you for this. There is really no one thing that can be heralded as THE answer to depression, anxiety...or any other condition, for that matter. If someone takes an anti-depressant thinking that it's going to be a magic pill, s/he is going to be severely disappointed. Even counseling won't work if one doesn't put their own work into it. I look at a therapist as a facilitator, but I know that, ultimately, I'm going to need to do the work.
It's irresponsible to think that a particular medication is going to solve everything. Equally irresponsible are the myriad industries (think self-help, alernative therapies, vitamin and supplements) that encourage people to avoid or discontinue treatment that's backed by scientific research in lieu of something with dubious value. People need to approach their treatment plan with a healthy dose of skepticism, do their research, and advocate for themselves. They need to have a realistic idea of what to expect from treatment, and they need to know what things can interfere with that treatment.
Would be great to have a magic wand. But that's not going to happen.
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So, she stopped taking the meds, and is wandering the streets. My friend has not been able to find her for days at a time. She's been found sitting at the bus stop, on a bench in front of the grocery store, without shoes, etc. The mother is devoutly religious and is in deep denial that there is anything wrong with her daughter. Truly a sad situation.