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Old 03-01-2014, 09:34 PM
 
107 posts, read 122,744 times
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Have you ever wondered what your standing in a community or city is? Perhaps you don't care. As long as the status quo is maintained your good to go. However, get into a contentious issue with a municipality and you'll quickly find out what it's like to be a little person. Has it ever occurred to you that your worth might someday be discounted such that you become nothing. Or you become something to be trashed, thrown under the bus, become a sacrificial lamb, the door mat, or bastard stepchild for the rest of the community. And that's especially true if a developer and a city has a cozy relationship.
We instinctively want to believe we will be treated fairly by our own local government. That our quality of life will continue unabated. As some of us have painfully discovered, that can quickly become a fallacy. And if you think your fellow citizens are going to come running in your defense, think again. Human nature being what it is; if your not involved, stay away.
We keep hearing how great our system of government is. We run around the world waving the flag echoing that we are a nation of laws and justice for all, but someone left off the end “if you can afford it”!
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:05 PM
 
50,783 posts, read 36,486,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxworthy5 View Post
Have you ever wondered what your standing in a community or city is? Perhaps you don't care. As long as the status quo is maintained your good to go. However, get into a contentious issue with a municipality and you'll quickly find out what it's like to be a little person. Has it ever occurred to you that your worth might someday be discounted such that you become nothing. Or you become something to be trashed, thrown under the bus, become a sacrificial lamb, the door mat, or bastard stepchild for the rest of the community. And that's especially true if a developer and a city has a cozy relationship.
We instinctively want to believe we will be treated fairly by our own local government. That our quality of life will continue unabated. As some of us have painfully discovered, that can quickly become a fallacy. And if you think your fellow citizens are going to come running in your defense, think again. Human nature being what it is; if your not involved, stay away.
We keep hearing how great our system of government is. We run around the world waving the flag echoing that we are a nation of laws and justice for all, but someone left off the end “if you can afford it”!
If this is the case where you are, I'd say you don't live in a real "community", but not in all places do people think like this. I live in a small community (at least the year-round residents) and we have taken on and "beat City Hall) on several measures people felt weren't in the community's best interests, and won. In these situations, we, the little guys, beat developers and other powerful interests who had big money behind them, but because we came together in numbers, spoke at council meetings individually and as a group, started petition drives, wrote letters to the editor, etc. we managed to effect change.

In a typical suburb like I lived before, I agree we were "small fish in a big pond", but that is why I chose to find a place that was more community-oriented to call my home. I also got involved early on, and believe a lot of it is the effort you put into becoming and active and involved member of the community yourself.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,480,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxworthy5 View Post
Have you ever wondered what your standing in a community or city is? Perhaps you don't care. As long as the status quo is maintained your good to go. However, get into a contentious issue with a municipality and you'll quickly find out what it's like to be a little person.
There is a lot of variation in the responsiveness and corruptness of various government and para-government organizations. If the issue you engaged with them in had so much impact on your quality of life that you went out on a limb politically, then if you lost, you might seriously consider leaving that community as a rational response. It might not be fair or easy, but sometimes shaking the dust of a place off your feet is a good way to go.

Another possible response is to shrug and acknowledge that in this particular place, the old aphorism, "you can't fight city hall" is true, and to just be indifferent to it. But then again, if that is the best response, maybe it's the response you should have taken to start out with.

In the last couple of communities I lived in, they were clearly in the pocket of developers or large local employers and I didn't even bother to engage them. Where I am now, there seems to be an excellent and appreciated level of community involvement in public affairs, and the taxes are a lot higher as well so I care more about what they are being spent on. As a result, my normally apolitical self might actually attend a hearing now and then and assert myself. I might run for office in my neighborhood association, etc.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:10 AM
Zot
 
Location: 3rd rock from a nearby star
468 posts, read 681,594 times
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For those without gravitas in a community, there are always people willing to sell proxy gravitas and help get things done. I learned watching my local zoning commission that some lawyers got almost anything they wanted, and were willing to sell their service at reasonable fees. So if you aren't socially in a position to get what you want, check to see if there isn't another venue.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:46 PM
 
107 posts, read 122,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
If this is the case where you are, I'd say you don't live in a real "community", but not in all places do people think like this. I live in a small community (at least the year-round residents) and we have taken on and "beat City Hall) on several measures people felt weren't in the community's best interests, and won. In these situations, we, the little guys, beat developers and other powerful interests who had big money behind them, but because we came together in numbers, spoke at council meetings individually and as a group, started petition drives, wrote letters to the editor, etc. we managed to effect change.

In a typical suburb like I lived before, I agree we were "small fish in a big pond", but that is why I chose to find a place that was more community-oriented to call my home. I also got involved early on, and believe a lot of it is the effort you put into becoming and active and involved member of the community yourself.
In my case I use the word “community” loosely. I agree that fortunately not all municipalities exhibit such behavior. If your lucky enough to live in such a place, congrats. It is true that the vast majority of citizens never experience a disagreement with their city hall. But, it's one of those not-so “dirty little secrets” that a government who we place our trust in can trash someone for no significant reason. No one deserves that!
But, just because you haven't encountered such a scenario doesn't mean your immune. It's hard to convince people, it's human nature that if it doesn't affect us, we tend to not get involved. However, it can be a false assumption, for just like car accidents most drivers believe they never be involved in a one. Surprise, it can, and too often does. So you can find yourself in a the situation not unlike mine. That's why we ALL have a vested interest in putting a stop to this old adage “you can't fight city hall”.
Much of it hinges upon the people we elect. But that becomes problematic in a smaller jurisdiction for a couple reasons. First, you have less citizens willing to run for city offices. I have seen cases where there were no choices at all for a city council seat because no one would compete for the seat. I have even seen situations were council members had to be appointed to fill a council seat! Larger jurisdictions usually don't have that problem. Additionally, elections in smaller jurisdictions usually generate less interest and thus less voter participation. Compounding the problem is that our younger folks are taught less and less about history and government so we end with a “dumbed down” electorate. For our system of government to work properly, it really does require citizen participation. That's hard to do when one doesn't even have a basic understanding of the mechanics of how government works and a perspective that history provides us in order to become good citizens.
Originally our neighborhood DID get involved and were successful in hammering out a suitable agreement between us and a developer. The problem precipitated when a new city administration with new people were installed on the council and the city refused to enforce the original agreement (plat). The city and developer appears to have deployed a strategy that assured them a successful outcome, which it did.
For the economically disadvantaged, the justice system becomes problematic. As in my case, money often causes the problem and more money is required to address the problem. Depending on your level on the economic ladder, you may not see any justice!! Most assuredly municipalities undoubtedly know this and figure this into their equation as to who and when to pick their fights. If my street was lined with million dollar homes, my neighbors and I would not be having this major degradation in our safety, security, and quality of life.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:58 PM
 
107 posts, read 122,744 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zot View Post
For those without gravitas in a community, there are always people willing to sell proxy gravitas and help get things done. I learned watching my local zoning commission that some lawyers got almost anything they wanted, and were willing to sell their service at reasonable fees. So if you aren't socially in a position to get what you want, check to see if there isn't another venue.
This "checking" has been going on for four years trying to leave no rock unturned! Your correct, unfortunately the economically disadvantaged lack the resources to pursue a legal remedy. We like to think of our society as advanced, civilized, and high tech. Our governments are human institutions and as such suffer from some of the same short comings as we do. When these flaws are discovered we must be willing to tweak it.
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:22 PM
 
107 posts, read 122,744 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
There is a lot of variation in the responsiveness and corruptness of various government and para-government organizations. If the issue you engaged with them in had so much impact on your quality of life that you went out on a limb politically, then if you lost, you might seriously consider leaving that community as a rational response. It might not be fair or easy, but sometimes shaking the dust of a place off your feet is a good way to go.

Another possible response is to shrug and acknowledge that in this particular place, the old aphorism, "you can't fight city hall" is true, and to just be indifferent to it. But then again, if that is the best response, maybe it's the response you should have taken to start out with.

In the last couple of communities I lived in, they were clearly in the pocket of developers or large local employers and I didn't even bother to engage them. Where I am now, there seems to be an excellent and appreciated level of community involvement in public affairs, and the taxes are a lot higher as well so I care more about what they are being spent on. As a result, my normally apolitical self might actually attend a hearing now and then and assert myself. I might run for office in my neighborhood association, etc.
You are correct. Variations among governments, just like humans, are common. My family has seriously considered leaving our home of over thirty years. Being uprooted after all these years is tough but we may not have much choice. For some of my neighbors, they are retired and that's not so easy. It's sad that a situation like this ever gets to this point over such non-sense. If nothing else, it's a lesson learned. I'd like others to take note from my unfortunate circumstance and learn from it. If you don't live in affluent neighborhood, don't think it can't happen to you!
I firmly believe that to solve this problem we need legislation that “levels the legal playing field” between a municipality and it's citizens. A city uses our tax money against us, it's time to institute some form of tax supported legal solution to this problem. Be it a special prosecutor assigned to a case or other means. Once again, it's time to put a stop to the old adage “you can't fight city hall”. There's just no room for it in our modern governmental and legal system!
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