Why do some veterans refuse to seek professional help to treat their PTSD? (borderline, parent)

[GotHereQuickAsICould]

Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981

Hi, I just want to let you know that I went to this website,

Get Help | Veterans Crisis Line

and clicked on the "veterans confidential chat", I had such an amazing experience with an online counselor/operator.

here is the transcript in case anybody is interested

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Sometimes technical issues cause a chat to end unexpectedly. If this happens, please come back to chat again or call us at 1-800-273-TALK (8255) and press 1.

Welcome to VeteransChat, Shirley1 will be right with you.

Shirley1
Hi, welcome to U.S Military Veterans crisis chat, my name is Shirley. How may I help you?

Lily

I am NOT a veteran myself, but I do know a veteran Can I chat?

Lily

I am afraid he is in some kind of crisis

Shirley1
I'm glad your reaching out Lilly, whats going on with your friend?

Lily

He is a Combat Marine veteran
Lily
Ever since he came out of the Marine Corps, he has been drinking almost daily.
Lily
I think he might suffer from PTSD
Lily
He has troubles sleeping.
Lily
always has nightmares.
Lily
As a friend, what can I do to help?

Shirley1
You feel that since he has been out of the military you have seen a change in him. Does he recognize this change?

Lily
Yes he does
Lily
He has never been drinking like this in the Marine Corps
Lily
Is there anything I can do to help?
Lily
He is currently in XXXX area California

Shirley1
Has he connected with the Va at all?

Lily
I really am not sure.
Lily
I just know that he drinks almost daily.

Shirley1
Is he in current crisis right now, or are you looking for long term care for him.

Lily
I am looking for a long term care for him.
Lily
He is not in crisis right now, no. I don't think so.

Shirley1
Thats good to hear.

Lily
But nobody knows what he really thinks on daily basis. He drinks all the time.

Shirley1
Of course, thats what makes it difficult for the friends and family that have to watch on.

Lily
Don't get me wrong though, he can function pretty well on daily basis, he goes to school he even has a civilian job
Lily
But we are looking for some kind of treatment for him.
Lily
What are our options?

Shirley1
Of course. It sounds like the best bet would be having him connected to the VA to see what they could do to assist him.
Shirley1
He would have to register he could just bring his dd214 and they would help him with that

Lily
Does he have to be in the system? How long does it take for a psychologist or therapist to make an appointment to see him? Do you know?
Lily
or do you know any psychologists he can see in XXX area?
Lily
I heard of a new treatment called EMDR for PTSD, do you know any therapists who offer this kind of treatment in xxxx?
Lily
Oh I see.

Shirley1
The Va has many different programs to offer veterans.

Lily
I see.
Lily
So VA is his only option?

Shirley1
I could give you the number to the crisis coordinator that is closest to him, he could try calling the coordinator.
Shirley1
I have resources only for the VA and Va affiliates.

Lily
Yes please.

Shirley1
I can also give you the number to the Vet center, they specialize in mental health for combat veterans. He could call them as well

Lily
please give me a number of the crisis hot line and also the vet center number

Shirley1
Before i get into the phone numbers i would like to just check in with you. Are you having any thoughts of suicide tonight?

Lily
Thank you
Lily
Me? Oh no no Never
Lily
I've never had suicide thoughts.
Lily
I am not a veteran.

Shirley1
Thats really great to hear, we check in with everyone that comes in.
Shirley1
OK what is your current zip code?

Lily
That is understandable.
Lily
My current zipcode is XXXX
Lily
But that is NOT my friend's zipcode
Lily
He's in XXXX
Lily
Do you need his zip?

Shirley1
Yea whats his zip code?

Lily
Hold on let me check his address wait a second please. sorry

Shirley1
No problem, i'm just really glad that you are there for him and reaching out for him

Lily
XXXXX
Lily
Thank you I do the best I can to help.

Shirley1
OK here is the first number to the Vet center- 1-855-898-6050

Lily
Can you let me know what does Vet center do?
Lily
I wrote it down by the way.

Shirley1
they specialize in mental health for combat veterans

Lily
Oh great.
Lily
and all he needs is DD214 correct?

Shirley1
And here is the local crisis coordinator. It looks like the closest VA hospital would be san diego. That number is 619-400-5046

Shirley1
Yes

Lily
Ok got it.

Shirley1
The vet center and the coordinator are there normal business hours monday- friday

Lily
okay great.

Shirley1
You could also give him this chat line or the crisis lines phone number as well 1-800-273-8255
Shirley1
We are here 24/7 so if ever just needs someone to talk with we are here as well.

Lily
That is great.
Lily
Another thing I would like to ask is that let's say my veteran friend is indeed in crisis and he reaches out the hot line. Will he get arrested by police officers?

Shirley1
We do absolutely every thing we can to prevent that as much as possible.

Lily
Oh good good.
Lily
Before I let you go, I would like to ask as a friend who knows nothing about military and combat, what can I do to help?

Shirley1
Our main interest is to get the veteran safe and resources to get them the help that they need.

Lily
Yes, that is good to know.
Lily
They have to be able to trust before they reach out.

Shirley1

Honestly, its just being there for them. Listening to them. You may never truly understand what they went through but just a listening ear is helpful.
Shirley1
You have already done so much by looking for resources for him, your doing everything you can .

Lily
Okay, and are there any warning signs I need to watch out for?
Lily
and how do i convince him to go seek professional help? Do you have any tips for me?

Shirley1
Well there is a hotline that may be able to assist you with this its called coaching into care. It helps to assist friends and family of veterans that are resistant to care.

Lily
Oh great, can I have that number please?

Shirley1
There number is 888-823-7458 and there open 8-8 mon- fri
Shirley1
and i'm glad your writing all of this down because once the chat closes the little box will disappear

Lily
Thank you so much.

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I am very glad that I had an online chat with this Veteran crisis online operator. I am going to call the number she gave me and see if I can get more information in term of how to help my veteran friends.

Thank you so much.

This hotline counselor was textbook wonderful. Thanks for posting.

>>new treatment called EMDR for PTSD<<

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) has been around for some time. Can be very effective for some. For more information:

EMDR Institute, Inc.

[lilyflower3191981]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

This hotline counselor was textbook wonderful. Thanks for posting.

>>new treatment called EMDR for PTSD<<

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) has been around for some time. Can be very effective for some. For more information:

EMDR Institute, Inc.

yeah posted so many of these videos already on this thread. I personally tried this myself.

[lilyflower3191981]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

You don't call 911 every time someone says "Life is meaningless, I just want to kill myself."

You call when someone says, "I can't go on like this. I'm going to shoot myself," and there's a gun. Intent, plan, and means is what the crisis response team will asses as well.

As to losing custody of their kids, that's the least of your worries at that moment. I've worked on crisis response teams and gone out with officers hundreds of time to assess such situations. If the parent is unable to care for the kids, the first thing we did was contact a relative or friend to watch them while they go in for a psych eval. Over the course of several years, I assessed some frequent fliers dozens of times and unless the kids are in clear danger, they are rarely removed from the home by Child Protective Services. Many times, I thought they should be placed in foster care, particularly when drugs and alcohol are involved. But there they are next time we show up.

Ex spouses may try to use the psych eval in court to change custody and visitation. I don't know how successful this is as I've seen people I wouldn't leave a dog with retain custody of kids. Probably depends on the lawyers involved.

The VA crisis hotline is a terrific resource. There are other options on that list as well.

But if you believe that if you walk out that door the person will try to harm themselves, calling 911 is the thing to do. These people are trained to handle such situations. They do it all the time.

Thank you.

I lost a boyfriend to suicide years ago and he did not have any guns. He hanged himself. I learned from my survivor support groups that majority of the people don't really kill themselves with firearms. Matter of fact, hindsight being 20/20, I could see now that my late boyfriend displayed quite a few these so called "suicide warning signs" on that day. But I can almost guarantee you that most people would NEVER take him seriously if being put in the same situation. Bottom line, there are no ways of knowing who is in crisis.

I must emphasize, NONE of my combat veterans (Marines) friends own firearms, NONE. NONE of them are violent, every single one of them is functioning really well in the society, including this friend. They are fighting a silent battle, this is exactly why it pains me to see them suffer like this.

Also, I hope I don't offend you. You sound like you know what you are saying or doing, so I must ask you, "How do you think taking away their kids would help their and their kids' situation?" First of all, some of these Marines have crazy ex wives (As a woman, I am not here to bash my gender. I am only saying what I am seeing.) My friend is a responsible father and his little boy is really the happiest when he is with his dad. Plus, my friend has a lot of time on his hands right now because he has been out of Marine Corps for quite some time now, he pays so much attention to his son. He's almost like a stay at home dad.

He has an amazing circle of friends who can offer help whenever he needs it. We all have very good family backgrounds, all of us are educated, caring, sane people. We are all willing to help, so it is not like he is really alone.

He has expressed numerous times that his son has saved his life, and I know for a fact that he cannot lose custody. If anybody deserve to lose custody, then that person should be his ex wife. I am a fair person and I am not biased when I say this.

The bottom line is that, and I think even you would agree, there are textbook cliche way to help somebody, there are human practical ways to help somebody. Most of these veterans just want somebody to be there for them when they are experiencing emotional low. They are not all ready to kill themselves.

I understand that calling 911 is the effect way to save somebody's life if that person is making plan to hurt himself, but when somebody just need somebody to talk to, do you believe crisis help line will do something drastic to have them arrested? I have asked VA crisis online operator the same question, she said, "We will do everything possible to avoid that situation."

I think a lot of veterans are afraid to reach out because they are afraid to lose freedom or their kids.

Mental illness is an illness that can strike anyone at any age at any point in their life. There exist no boundaries among mental illness: all age groups, races, economic groups, creeds, and colors can develop a mental illness during their lifetime.

Part of the reason that so many veterans even regular people with mental illnesses experience hostility, discrimination, and stigma is because many people simply do not understand that mental illness does not make you "crazy," "violent," or lead to inappropriate behaviors. Being mentally ill just means that your brain isn't working as well as it should, but with proper treatment, you can live a normal life.

A lot of people worry they might lose employment or custody, that is why they don't reach out to get help.

I guess I am looking for a practical, fool proof way to support these veterans. They really need to be able to trust the professionals in order to open up.

[lilyflower3191981]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

Over the course of several years, I assessed some frequent fliers dozens of times and unless the kids are in clear danger, they are rarely removed from the home by Child Protective Services.

I've read your post several times, so I don't miss something.

I must say that this is very reassuring.

[Lee W.]

DH was locked up by the VA a while after his discharge (he had been in Viet Nam), grossly misdiagnosed, then kept for a long time while they kept him dosed up by powerful drugs that turned his mind into mush. No real treatment back then, just drugs. And of course, they denied the claim sent in on his behalf then. Yeah, wonder why he waited until this century to be treated again.

[lilyflower3191981]

Originally Posted by Lee W.

DH was locked up by the VA a while after his discharge (he had been in Viet Nam), grossly misdiagnosed, then kept for a long time while they kept him dosed up by powerful drugs that turned his mind into mush. No real treatment back then, just drugs. And of course, they denied the claim sent in on his behalf then. Yeah, wonder why he waited until this century to be treated again.

I have to say that VA has a lot of really really good programs to help these veterans including Vietnam veterans. Matter of fact, all my combat veteran friends are all pretty much in their 20s to early 30s. Several of them are receiving treatments and get great result.

Has your husband tried EMDR?

I and quite a few posters have mentioned EMDR on this thread. It is a very effective treatment. Patient can experience IMMEDIATE relief after even the first session (treatment).

Here I am posting these videos again in case you missed them earlier.


Dr. Daniel Amen on CBS News - Treating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - YouTube


EMDR - 20/20 Report - YouTube


NLP Eye Movement Integration with a Vietnam Veteran (PTSD) - YouTube

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Lee W.

DH was locked up by the VA a while after his discharge (he had been in Viet Nam), grossly misdiagnosed, then kept for a long time while they kept him dosed up by powerful drugs that turned his mind into mush. No real treatment back then, just drugs. And of course, they denied the claim sent in on his behalf then. Yeah, wonder why he waited until this century to be treated again.

That was quite common. A diagnoses of PTSD often meant incarceration either physical in the form of long term hospitalization or Chemical incarceration through drugs.

If one did not have a disabling physical injury it was not wise to go to the VA.

On a plus side, I've seen quite a lot of improvement over the past 20 years.

[lilyflower3191981]

Definitely! Most of my vet friends like VA hospitals.

My best friend and I will take our friend to see a private psychologist. We have already found an EMDR therapist in his area.

I will probably record our progress and share with everybody here.

Again, thank you all so much for advice!!

Take care everybody!!

[trishguard]

Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick

That is not true. While the person himself has to be willing to get help, having others' encouragement is VERY important. It varies from person to person but this whole "there is nothing you can do attitude" is not the right way to go about it. No wonder so many fellow Vets feel alone and hopeless because people just assume there is nothing that can be done and walk away.

There's a fine line between encouraging and incessant nagging. You encourage someone to do what they want to do when they are doubting themselves or lack confidence. You nag when you try to get someone to do something that they don't want to do and they've already told you this. Nagging is very antagonizing to the person being nagged and may make them turn on you. When he's ready to talk about it she can be there for him if she wants. Until then, she's already said what she needed to say, he heard it, and he is an adult and has made his decision.

[lilyflower3191981]

No, actually nobody really "nagged" him about it. He was afraid of getting treatment, but we finally had a breakthrough. He agreed to receive EMDR treatment from a private therapist.

Sometimes, these war fighting warriors need a little bit more than just encouragement. I am going to call the number provided by VA crisis hotline and learn communication skills.

If we just walk away and leave them alone, they will never go seek treatment themselves.