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I'm drawing a complete blank on what women can do for
their looks that men can't. Both sexes can wear makeup, get haircuts, lose/gain
weight, and even get plastic surgery.
I disagree with the makeup part, and haircuts are different from hairstyling. Weight loss is the only thing that men can do to the same extent that women can to change their appearance.
Quote:
It's just that society is much less critical about what a man looks like than
what a woman looks like. Men in the public eye are rarely criticized for their
looks. But if someone is criticizing a woman the first thing they usually do is
call her ugly, even if she's not and her looks have nothing to do with whatever
it is they have a problem with.
True......and I think it's horrible that women are under the kind of pressure about their looks that they experience. This is truly a case in which men experience privilege through lower expectations. Ugly men can even joke about their lack of attractiveness - I've done it - and there is no real shaming or diminishing of their status.
I think this aspect is changing in that women, now more financially independent and self-sufficient, are now more adamant about a guy's looks (or overall attractiveness, since attraction can come in many forms) than they were before. Gone are the days when all average joe had to have was a good stable job and college degree to find a pretty young wife.
This is precisely why so many so-called "good guys" are failing with women. They neglect all other aspects of being a well-rounded overall attractive person, thinking that their college degree or job title will do all the heavy lifting for them. Pigeonholing yourself into this one-dimensional caricature will just make you one of millions of similar guys, and you will be treated accordingly by selective women in the dating game.
Women don't want to settle for some doughy office worker with zero outside hobbies, even if he makes good money. She makes good money herself and also finds the time to hit the gym and eat healthy: so what can he offer what she doesn't already have?
Love. I'm not saying that guy is good enough, but the typical woman who does most things right shouldn't rule out a man for not being a hunk or exciting. Only a minority of men has the potential (such as height) to be stereotypically hot, and most men (and women) aren't what I would call exciting. Also, if she wants babies, technology is offering mostly false hopes and still the safe thing for her to do is pair up with a decent, caring man when relatively young. Waiting for Mr. Just-right will see her looks deteriorate and the pool of good-enough men shrink.
Love. I'm not saying that guy is good enough, but the typical woman who does most things right shouldn't rule out a man for not being a hunk or exciting.
But you seem perfectly comfortable if men rule out women who are not hot enough. But you advise women to not rule out men who don't put in that extra effort to attract women? Why on earth should she? By your rules, she's putting in that extra effort to be attractive (because she's obligated to do so ) but you advise her to give some schlub with a good job a chance, even though he's not putting in the effort that she's been pressured to put in? He'd reject her if she didn't put in the effort, wouldn't he? Even though she'd still be able to offer "love" if her looks weren't as great, that's not enough, is it?
So why can't it work the other way?
Go-getta-j wrote this part, which you ignore:
Quote:
Women don't want to settle for some doughy office worker with zero outside hobbies, even if he makes good money. She makes good money herself and also finds the time to hit the gym and eat healthy: so what can he offer what she doesn't already have?
If said "doughy office worker" is making no effort to be less doughy, and no effort to have any interesting hobbies, then why should he still be able to snag a pretty young wife? A guy can't control his height, but he can control many other factors which will make him more attractive to the woman who herself has put in that effort. You seem to think that the pressure should be all on her side, and that she should let his lack of effort (over the things he can work on) slide. You also seem to think that men are powerless to find less-than-hot women attractive (therefore it's her obligation to work harder to be pretty, otherwise she's diminishing the available dating pool for him) but that women should overlook the less-than-hotness in a man and give him a chance regardless. (In other words, her available dating pool is not diminished, even though it's populated with many doughy office workers who won't put in the effort to be more fit or interesting.) Talk about double standard.
Last edited by elvira310; 06-06-2014 at 11:22 AM..
Love. I'm not saying that guy is good enough, but the typical woman who does most things right shouldn't rule out a man for not being a hunk or exciting. Only a minority of men has the potential (such as height) to be stereotypically hot, and most men (and women) aren't what I would call exciting. Also, if she wants babies, technology is offering mostly false hopes and still the safe thing for her to do is pair up with a decent, caring man when relatively young. Waiting for Mr. Just-right will see her looks deteriorate and the pool of good-enough men shrink.
Might want to edit your first word to bro or dude. Don't want this to get weird.....
People should be putting effort to look and feel good for themselves first and foremost. I see so many not even caring about themselves, their health, and no pride in how they look. They won't even lift their feet to walk, they shuffle. Men with bellies hanging below too short t-shirt and awful flip-flops. Really obese young men and women who should be at their physical peak, and if they do want to attract someone, at least caring about their hygiene and how they present themselves. Skinny-fat girls wearing too tight pants that create a muffin top where there would not be one, and the tight see through shirt displays the muffin in it's full glory. A lot of BAD tats. Wearing pajamas in public. Full on class.
How is anyone supposed to be attracted to anyone else if everyone is trying to be so bad looking? It seems like they are putting effort into looking as People of Walmart or Porn-dashian as possible. Maybe that is why Elliot Rodger made a big deal out of his being well dressed and groomed, so many people look like they crawled out of a sewer now, when it doesn't have to be that way.
I just read the chilling transcripts from a video posted by the Santa Barbara killer. I was struck by how eerily similar his rhetoric is to some of the young guys who post here. I understand he also posted at bodybuilding.com like many of the guys that come here lamenting the fact that they can't "get a female."
Of course my post title is facetious. But I wonder if getting enmeshed in an Internet community where such ideas are supported may be perpetuating the isolation and disconnection to reality. What can we in our own lives do? If anything?
People should be putting effort to look and feel good for themselves first and foremost. I see so many not even caring about themselves, their health, and no pride in how they look. They won't even lift their feet to walk, they shuffle. Men with bellies hanging below too short t-shirt and awful flip-flops. Really obese young men and women who should be at their physical peak, and if they do want to attract someone, at least caring about their hygiene and how they present themselves. Skinny-fat girls wearing too tight pants that create a muffin top where there would not be one, and the tight see through shirt displays the muffin in it's full glory. A lot of BAD tats. Wearing pajamas in public. Full on class.
How is anyone supposed to be attracted to anyone else if everyone is trying to be so bad looking? It seems like they are putting effort into looking as People of Walmart or Porn-dashian as possible. Maybe that is why Elliot Rodger made a big deal out of his being well dressed and groomed, so many people look like they crawled out of a sewer now, when it doesn't have to be that way.
First good, original point by anyone in a while.
For the record, I never said men have no obligation to make an effort. I tried to hint at my thoughts in my previous reply, and earlier I said both sexes should try harder to be desirable. (Though the average man's improvement ceiling is lower, and sometimes he can get around working on his outside.)
I think a problem with many women and Elliot Rodger is the idea that effort should equal reward. Years of dieting or bulking, of trudging to parties or searching dating sites, of spending big on clothing - if the visual result is not what others want, the reward isn't deserved. [Scrooge McDuck reference] Too many people today who try are trying stupid.
For the record, I never said men have no obligation to make an effort. I tried to hint at my thoughts in my previous reply, and earlier I said both sexes should try harder to be desirable.
You responded to a post which was quite specific--why should a woman who puts effort into her appearance, and who also has an interesting job, and keeps fit, consider a 'doughy' guy who has no outside hobbies but a good job? You replied that women should still consider the doughy, average guy, for 'love.'
I think your meaning is quite clear.
Let me ask you this. Should a man who puts effort into his appearance and who has a good job and interests consider a 'doughy' woman, because she can offer 'love'?
You responded to a post which was quite specific--why should a woman who puts effort into her appearance, and who also has an interesting job, and keeps fit, consider a 'doughy' guy who has no outside hobbies but a good job? You replied that women should still consider the doughy, average guy, for 'love.'
I think your meaning is quite clear.
Let me ask you this. Should a man who puts effort into his appearance and who has a good job and interests consider a 'doughy' woman, because she can offer 'love'?
He makes romantic relationships sound rather clinical. Nobody deserves love simply because of their resume/CV or their list of assets. Two people have to click and be attracted to each other. There's an intangible spark that society can't mandate and people can't fake. Maybe it isn't fair, and maybe there isn't a lid for every pot like Grandma said, but them's the breaks.
You responded to a post which was quite specific--why should a woman who puts effort into her appearance, and who also has an interesting job, and keeps fit, consider a 'doughy' guy who has no outside hobbies but a good job? You replied that women should still consider the doughy, average guy, for 'love.'
I think your meaning is quite clear.
Let me ask you this. Should a man who puts effort into his appearance and who has a good job and interests consider a 'doughy' woman, because she can offer 'love'?
No, but I said "love" in response to, "so what can he offer what she doesn't already have?" I didn't say she should accept or seriously consider. Off my back, please.
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) but you advise her to give some schlub with a good job a chance, even though he's not putting in the effort that she's been pressured to put in? He'd reject her if she didn't put in the effort, wouldn't he? Even though she'd still be able to offer "love" if her looks weren't as great, that's not enough, is it?
Might want to edit your first word to bro or dude. Don't want this to get weird.....
