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I thought I might throw in my two cents, although I haven't read all of the posts. It's a terrible thing to be lonely, and, while I do not believe loneliness in and of itself contributes to people becoming criminals, it is easier to develop anti-social tendencies and view people in a negative light after prolonged periods of loneliness. That's one reason I think they should teach social skills in school. Not everyone just "gets it," and it's painful for those who do not and for the ones who care about them and watch them suffer.
I thought I might throw in my two cents, although I haven't read all of the posts. It's a terrible thing to be lonely, and, while I do not believe loneliness in and of itself contributes to people becoming criminals, it is easier to develop anti-social tendencies and view people in a negative light after prolonged periods of loneliness. That's one reason I think they should teach social skills in school. Not everyone just "gets it," and it's painful for those who do not and for the ones who care about them and watch them suffer.
Chicken or egg? Are they anti social because they are lonely, or are they lonely because they are anti social.
I'm not even going to comment on teaching social skills in school.
WOW! I don't know any fat women under 40 or in their 40's. All the women I know who are invisible to men are trim and in shape. (As I've posted before on this thread.) There aren't that many fat people under 50 in the Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, or Colorado. I don't know where you live, but you should try a change of scenery. In any case, all it takes to get sidelined in the social scene is to be plain/average. Another obstacle is looking way too young/baby face. Boobage and a lack thereof probably is a factor for some. It has nothing to do with "fat". You really have no idea what you're talking about.
Apparently, fat people don't deserve love.
Of the women who struggled with dating when they were younger (we're all over 40 now) about half were overweight. While thinner women did seem to have an easier time dating, I had overweight friends who had no trouble dating too. Some people realize that women are people and come in all shapes and sizes. I have no idea why it's ok in our culture to hate on the fat. What's it to someone else?
Interestingly, those who were heavy when they married tended to stay married while those who were thin had a much higher divorce rate. I don't know if there's any research on this but it's my observation in my little world.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-20-2014 at 06:35 AM..
But when you look at discussions that attract a wider cross section of guys, you'll find that there are many who have healthy relationships with women, like women, and think that a lot of the complaining is so much b.s. Sure, there are all kinds of guys, a few have some backwards ideas, but they are basically decent people instead of bitter whiners. There are a high percentage of men who are mentally healthy and content--and sometimes there's a clash between the two types where the more healthy guys mock the basement dwellers who complain and hate the women that they never interact with. (This is how the normal guys characterize the misogynists.) lol.
The sexist bigots call the normal men manginas and say they bought into the matriarchy if they want or have a healthy equal partnership with a woman.
From reading this thread and others on CD, it seems like many people think that a guy who is a lonely virgin just needs to "hit the gym, get a good haircut, dress nice, develop confidence;" that every guy who can't find a woman he's attracted to is a lazy slob. Certainly there are too many men who are lazy slobs, but there are tons of men whose life revolves around improving their appearance and demeanor and yet they can't find mutual sexual attraction.
One reason is because there's not that much a man can do to improve his sexual attractiveness (which is to say his appearance ... Let's end this nonsense about women being "turned on" by a guy's humor or interestingness).
A large determining factor in a man's sexual attractiveness is his height, which is an immutable quality. Going to the gym to get a lean, muscular body doesn't affect attractiveness as much as guys wish it did. Women, on the other hand, have all sorts of mechanisms for vastly improving the sexual attractiveness of their figure: getting slender, getting breast implants, wearing high heels, getting a tan.
What about face? As far as complexion, a guy can't get a tan or spa treatment without being considered gay, can't paste makeup over his face to hide his acne or resulting scars, might have to contend with hair loss at an early age, etcetera. There's not much a guy can do to look better.
The idea that men don't try to improve their physical appearance is ridiculous. Prowl around the bathrooms of most men and you'll find tweezers, teeth whitening kits, medications to prevent hair loss, fancy cologne, etc.
Another reason that a guy can't find mutual sexual attraction is because, well, women find a very small number of men to be sexually attractive. I would say that women find about 1% of the male population sexually attractive, while men find 20% of the female population sexually attractive (could be a lot more or less, depending on location). The dating world is a competition over the top 20% of women, who aren't interesting in 99 out of 100 men who try to attract them.
How many men is height truly an issue for? I have no doubt it is an issue for some men, but not the vast majority. BTW, height can be an issue for women as far as attractiveness is concerned, it just doesn't get discussed much. Some men have explicitly said on these forums that they like very petite women....I would have been too tall by sixth or seventh grade for these guys.
Obese men can work on their weight just like women.
Heels don't really do that much....and if wearing them means even more men will disqualify you for being too tall...not seeing how that helps. But for an average woman wouldn't heels sort of be comparable to a man dressing well. Men certainly have control over that.
Go to a dermatologist there are a lot of options to pursue for bad skin for both genders. Makeup only does so much for a woman with lots of scarring and uneven skin texture.
I thought I might throw in my two cents, although I haven't read all of the posts. It's a terrible thing to be lonely, and, while I do not believe loneliness in and of itself contributes to people becoming criminals, it is easier to develop anti-social tendencies and view people in a negative light after prolonged periods of loneliness. That's one reason I think they should teach social skills in school. Not everyone just "gets it," and it's painful for those who do not and for the ones who care about them and watch them suffer.
I can definitely understand how a person like Elliot Rodger can happen. Limited social skills, low self esteem, depression, antipsychotics, and a strong desire to fit in and not be rejected.
Society tends to push things on you. I remember all the pressure I got from my family when I graduated high school (which was hard, because I was bullied and almost didn't graduate.) I was being pushed into going to college and not working a menial job, like retail. All that hard work by my family, imposing that I needed to "be like all the rest"...all my family went to college...ended up making me even more insecure about how smart I really was.
I also faced other pressures from my family. When I was 27, and had never had a girlfriend, my uncle gave me a birthday present of....deodorant. His reasoning was "so that I would smell good for the ladies." I think he suspected that I was gay. I was also constantly reminded about how much of my cousins were "ladies men", and how I should be married by 30. I still get teased that I have tons of cats at home, and my family refers to me as "The cat man."
Ugh. I don't blame Rodger for turning out the way he did. But he could have been treated, and prevented, from becoming the monster he turned out to be. I've been kicked around my whole life, and I don't want to shoot anyone.
Google "male height distribution." The results surprise me. It should make people more concerned about bubbling male anger. (Men can wear lifts, by the way.)
Also, I believe that most depression is circumstantial, with a genetic component. People rarely become badly depressed without external or physiological triggers, and antidepressants don't do much for circumstantial depression, although the industry likes to claim they do. There's no doubt that introversion impedes males and females romantically (and beyond), but rather clearly it hurts males more.
Another thing is the ongoing blue pill/red pill war on forums. Men fight with each other over how bad women are (often indirectly, as in boasts and insults about men). The truth probably is closer to what misogynists believe and supported by data that is increasingly passed around; some of the men insisting otherwise are clinging to false hopes and the men in lousy relationships usually stay quiet.
Maybe it's because I didn't read the manuscript, or watch the videos, but I don't remember Rodger complaining about being too short. Not that it would matter, anyways...most of the married friends I have, who are male, are shorter that their wives, or short in general.
I'm 5'11", so probably just about average.
You only let the lack of a relationship trouble you if you let it. I could be depressed and never get out of bed because of the ****ty year I had last year, but I push on...why? Because this year has to be better.
So now if men are happy in a relationship they are delusional or lying according to some silly red pill boys. I guess misery loves company so you gotta bring the real men down to your level. Sounds like the attitude and behavior of jr. high mean girls.
This is an issue that hurts families and friendships. How is a man who hates western women supposed to fit into a family of western women and their spouses and kids. If you were raised by a US mother and you hate US women what does that say about your mom...or sister.. and what, your father is a liar or a loser for loving your mother... it's very ugly. These guys don't respect anyone.
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