The root of Elliott Rodger's extreme jealousy/anger (husband, men, dating)
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Wow, that's awesome! You got feedback, were able to accept it, and you didn't even have to pay someone to give you feedback because you were smart enough to use it all to your advantage! That's a blessing, you know, to be able to gather feedback and improve oneself.
Thanks, it is, but I really view it as adapting to the dating scene as I allued in a previous post. The unique aspect when it comes to dating (esp if you are not good initially), is that your success is contingent on how many 'failures aka rejections' you get and if you are willing to learn from them.
I will not argue the fact that it is much easier to get angry or wallow in self-pity (like elliot did) vs. making self-improvements. It's time consuming and takes a lot of effort. I agree to that.
I did not 'compromise' myself in any way. I changed my social interactions significantly through trial and error to the point where I am a presentable confident male. I did not get plastic surgery, or take steroids to grow muscles, etc, etc.....the majority of social awkward men most likely need also improvements in verbal communication and body language. The irony is that these changes do not even cost money.....unless you need professional treatment that is.
Thanks, it is, but I really view it as adapting to the dating scene as I allued in a previous post. The unique aspect when it comes to dating (esp if you are not good initially), is that your success is contingent on how many 'failures aka rejections' you get and if you are willing to learn from them.
I will not argue the fact that it is much easier to get angry or wallow in self-pity (like elliot did) vs. making self-improvements. It's time consuming and takes a lot of effort. I agree to that.
I did not 'compromise' myself in any way. I changed my social interactions significantly through trial and error to the point where I am a presentable confident male. I did not get plastic surgery, or take steroids to grow muscles, etc, etc.....the majority of social awkward men most likely need also improvements in verbal communication and body language. The irony is that these changes do not even cost money.....unless you need professional treatment that is.
You are welcome. I'm sure this is no surprise but there are a lot of men like Elliot out there. There was a guy named "George Sodini" who killed women back in 2009 over the same issue. If you are not familar with this situation, Google his name and read the story. I remember reading about his situation as well.
I've also heard about the 'pick up community' and the term PUA or pick up artist. I've read their material and I can appreciate the approach they take towards helping men be better with women, however; I disagree with the entire community as a whole. The pick up community depending on what or where you read DOES revolve around a premise that men are entitled to women and I do believe there is a large amount of mysgony that exists. It's pretty disgusting to read actually some of the material that is written or suggested towards men and it is a wrong premise to display towards addressing more female companionship.
Elliot Rodger seemed like a young adult male, stuck in a little boy's mentality. The way he spoke of wallowing into a pillow, I had a hard time with, but obviously he did it a lot. I found the way he spoke of having his mommy set up play dates, very disturbing. He also referred to his dad as daddy, which isn't normal for a boy to do. Usually we stop calling them that, in grade school. He was overly protected, and rewarded by acting good. When he became old enough, to where he should be responsible for his childish outburst, he was pushed and forced to become an adult, when mommy and daddy sent him away to school. Sure he was given a lot of opportunities that many aren't given. In this case I feel that because he acted like his mother didn't stop nursing him until 14, that his parent's wealth enabled them to buy their way through parenthood. He makes his mother seem so loving, but how loving was she really? His father wasn't present, although he respected him, and desired his approval throughout his life, he speaks of him, as if it were more out of being afraid, than actual respect for someone you love. As I read his words, he seemed to never grow up, he just got older. His age exposed him to tools, in which he could act out his aggression.
His infatuation with the video game, and the whole culture, is what is destroying society today. While many can get involved with them, many more become too involved and immersed with fantasy. The numbers of single parents is so much higher than it was in say the 80's, that many kids find themselves without a parental figure to teach them how to interact with others. Kids who go to daycare, are babysat, who have nannies, are being raised by people who really don't care how they are being taught. Many will disagree, but think about it, why would they? There has to be a big difference between a parent and a hired employee, when it comes to personal investment in a child. If you think that nanny of yours is a wonderful surrogate parent, congratulations....but that isn't always the case. Economics will play a vital role in the quality and CONSISTENCY of the child's care. While the affluent, may be able to provide constant care with one person, throughout a kid's childhood, many will find it difficult to keep a long lasting person as a care taker, so a child may see many different ones in his lifetime. Some may be excellent, but once you change, the next may not be so great....think of it, like having to uproot a kid and have him change schools.
The bottom line, is that the family dynamic has changed. Children don't interact with other's their own age, other than school, and if they are home schooled, they have little or none. Awkwardness is something I don't typically feel, however, in the couple of instances that used to make me awkward, such as speaking in front of more than one hundred, putting myself in that awkward situation, made it easier each time. After awhile, you aren't so awkward, and it's forgotten. When I was a kid, my video game was Baseball, football, basketball, soccer, and dirt bikes. I was always hanging out with kids my age and older. So I used to social interactions, something a child cannot possibly get comfortable with, if he has little, or no contact with others, is left alone all night to play video games, is home schooled....get the picture? Because kids like Elliot Rodger don't have social skills, they get flustered easily when they fail to fit in. The frustration brings embarrassment, and at least in this society where men aren't taught to really be in touch with their feeling, the fright from that embarrassment ignites a rage,anger, that unfortunately, is becoming too familiar, to our nightly news show. Video games support anti social behavior, and letting your kid play GTA etc...doesn't do anything except keep your kid in a place, where he can be watched. But who really watches, if you are an observant parent, watch your kid play one of those war games, let him play as long as he wants. He'll be on there all day and night if you let him. Then tell him to stop, and turn off the game, look into his eyes as his little fury boils inside....there are physical changes when they play those games, the same types of changes a person gets when they get into a fight...
About the dating scene, that guy could never participate, it's way too intimidating, he may have been 22, but tin truth he was a little 10 year old boy. He would have gotten flustered when putting up his profile.
Thanks, it is, but I really view it as adapting to the dating scene as I allued in a previous post. The unique aspect when it comes to dating (esp if you are not good initially), is that your success is contingent on how many 'failures aka rejections' you get and if you are willing to learn from them.
I will not argue the fact that it is much easier to get angry or wallow in self-pity (like elliot did) vs. making self-improvements. It's time consuming and takes a lot of effort. I agree to that.
I did not 'compromise' myself in any way. I changed my social interactions significantly through trial and error to the point where I am a presentable confident male. I did not get plastic surgery, or take steroids to grow muscles, etc, etc.....the majority of social awkward men most likely need also improvements in verbal communication and body language. The irony is that these changes do not even cost money.....unless you need professional treatment that is.
So wise. It's true. You know, I'm reading a book written by a stand-up comedian, and when people ask him how to "train" to be a good comic, he tells them, "Your teacher is your audience, and failure (falling flat on stage) is the only way to learn what works in comedy and what doesn't." When I read that, it dawned on me that that is the way all of life works.
Elliot Rodger seemed like a young adult male, stuck in a little boy's mentality. The way he spoke of wallowing into a pillow, I had a hard time with, but obviously he did it a lot. I found the way he spoke of having his mommy set up play dates, very disturbing. He also referred to his dad as daddy, which isn't normal for a boy to do. Usually we stop calling them that, in grade school. He was overly protected, and rewarded by acting good. When he became old enough, to where he should be responsible for his childish outburst, he was pushed and forced to become an adult, when mommy and daddy sent him away to school. Sure he was given a lot of opportunities that many aren't given. In this case I feel that because he acted like his mother didn't stop nursing him until 14, that his parent's wealth enabled them to buy their way through parenthood. He makes his mother seem so loving, but how loving was she really? His father wasn't present, although he respected him, and desired his approval throughout his life, he speaks of him, as if it were more out of being afraid, than actual respect for someone you love. As I read his words, he seemed to never grow up, he just got older. His age exposed him to tools, in which he could act out his aggression.
His infatuation with the video game, and the whole culture, is what is destroying society today. While many can get involved with them, many more become too involved and immersed with fantasy. The numbers of single parents is so much higher than it was in say the 80's, that many kids find themselves without a parental figure to teach them how to interact with others. Kids who go to daycare, are babysat, who have nannies, are being raised by people who really don't care how they are being taught. Many will disagree, but think about it, why would they? There has to be a big difference between a parent and a hired employee, when it comes to personal investment in a child. If you think that nanny of yours is a wonderful surrogate parent, congratulations....but that isn't always the case. Economics will play a vital role in the quality and CONSISTENCY of the child's care. While the affluent, may be able to provide constant care with one person, throughout a kid's childhood, many will find it difficult to keep a long lasting person as a care taker, so a child may see many different ones in his lifetime. Some may be excellent, but once you change, the next may not be so great....think of it, like having to uproot a kid and have him change schools.
The bottom line, is that the family dynamic has changed. Children don't interact with other's their own age, other than school, and if they are home schooled, they have little or none. Awkwardness is something I don't typically feel, however, in the couple of instances that used to make me awkward, such as speaking in front of more than one hundred, putting myself in that awkward situation, made it easier each time. After awhile, you aren't so awkward, and it's forgotten. When I was a kid, my video game was Baseball, football, basketball, soccer, and dirt bikes. I was always hanging out with kids my age and older. So I used to social interactions, something a child cannot possibly get comfortable with, if he has little, or no contact with others, is left alone all night to play video games, is home schooled....get the picture? Because kids like Elliot Rodger don't have social skills, they get flustered easily when they fail to fit in. The frustration brings embarrassment, and at least in this society where men aren't taught to really be in touch with their feeling, the fright from that embarrassment ignites a rage,anger, that unfortunately, is becoming too familiar, to our nightly news show. Video games support anti social behavior, and letting your kid play GTA etc...doesn't do anything except keep your kid in a place, where he can be watched. But who really watches, if you are an observant parent, watch your kid play one of those war games, let him play as long as he wants. He'll be on there all day and night if you let him. Then tell him to stop, and turn off the game, look into his eyes as his little fury boils inside....there are physical changes when they play those games, the same types of changes a person gets when they get into a fight...
About the dating scene, that guy could never participate, it's way too intimidating, he may have been 22, but tin truth he was a little 10 year old boy. He would have gotten flustered when putting up his profile.
I reped you ( if that is the correct word) but I just want you to be aware that I would have went absolutely crazy if home schooled. There is just NO WAY I can be with family that long ( and never could be) and my real mother is very disturbed. I was lucky enough to have a step-mother that took me on, but she was 'no queen' but she applied everything she knew. I was force that was so strong, it will turn your head sideways, and make the Exorcist look like Charlie Brown at one point.
I think ER didn't like his step mother at all. I know this thread isn't about me ( and I am certainly not trying to make it out to be) but there is some parental detection here that is wrong. It's very wrong. I am not blaming one parent or the other.. I am just saying that some brain chemistry was off here.. or a re-actor was gone.( A big one)
I am going to try to watch the interview with his dad tonight ( after it is aired online) but I saw the preview and all I got out of it is, he didn't know.
I will eventually read his manifesto but I couldn't get through it.. It has nothing to do with his issues but he clearly has no idea about other people. To say the least. And yeah, I am being very sarcastic with the smiley. ( but it has nothing to do with you)
Last edited by thegreenflute334; 06-26-2014 at 08:27 PM..
I still cannot comprehend the fact of this 'fear'. As men, including myself, we all develop a form of anxiety when we approach women, public speaking, etc....this is typical and most people have this response. The difference is how many of us react to it, which I don't disagree that Elliot was suffering from psychological problems. I think though still his obsession with beautiful women is related to his relationship with his mother.
And I cannot comprehend guilt. I just do not, and cannot understand how people can regret doing something that didn't harm them. Why? My brain is wired that way.
Likewise, some people are just wired to be more sensitive to rejection than others and have more anxiety than other men. Their wiring is just different as well.
Quote:
I don't like to use myself as an example, but I will. Last year I actually did an experiment to get myself over my shyness and to be more social. In 3 months (June, July, August) I approached (in a romantic sense), 300 women (which equated to approximately 3-4/day). I did this during the day, at grocery stores, I also went to bars, etc, etc....I basically was very aggressive and put myself out there. I also kept notes on the overall results, which are not important, but I did document my own experience. No online non-sense, this was straight face to face 300 women. If you leave your house, you will see women in any setting. I've met women at gyms, bars, DMV, restaurants, etc, etc....nothing is off limits.
I got rejected by a large majority, however; I also got many phone numbers, dates, and physical intimacy from many of them as well.
I must confess, a similar thing happened to me. I finally gave in and listened to the voice in my head and started talking to a girl. She told me to buzz off...and I laughed in her face, called her a fat expletive (she wasn't fat, but girls hate that) She said I was just mad because I wouldn't sleep with her, and I said I would catch the herpes she got from when her step father raped her. That I think got to her.
That was my first real rejection...and I turned it around. The next girl to reject me was nice and I was nice to her back. Usually when a woman brushes a man off they are polite about it, I realized. Finally I actually succeeded a couple times.
But the worst part is, I only succeeded when I listened to the voice in my head, commanding me to hunt for a mate. No romance, no nice guyness...I just went forward, stroking the egos of the females, and it paid off. I let my "dark passenger" take control, and it worked...okay, maybe not my "dark passenger", because I didn't kill anyone, but rather my "gray passenger".
Quote:
Society creates a burden for men in the sense that we must be the ones proactive. Women can concieveably take a passive stance and eventually a man will approach her. Do I agree with this ? No. Is this the reality ? Yes. The same reality that society places on women that they must be 'young/thin' would be an equivalent. Is it fair that women are forced to conform to this as well ? No, but that's what the situation is.
Do I think Elliot did something to the extent that I did ? No. Of course not. I would guess most men only approach at most 100-150 women during their eligible bachelor years if even that.
While I can sympathize that given society's burden this is a challenge for men, however; it's not by any means an impossible feat. I guarantee you, if you approach 300, or even 1,000 (a guy I know did this), you will get results unless you have some extreme physical deformity. Elliot might have approached 4-5 women, but not 400-500. While I can understand the challenge for men (myself included), I don't have much sympathy in that regard. In fact tonight I was supposed to go out with this woman for drinks in LA and she didn't come through. Ok, whatev, I just went to the gym and haven't thought about it. That's life.
For the men who have difficulty, I think there is a misconception that you only do online dating, and maybe talk to 1 woman each month as a full-hearted effort. This is most likely yield very low results.
I agree 100% As awful as it is to say, the best advice I ever heard from dating was this: until she says she cares about you, treat all women as "human kleenexes" "Human", in that it doesn't pay to hurt them or do anything bad to them, but "kleenex" as in they are ultimately disposable and another one is guaranteed to show up right after that one is cast aside. Only when one actually has a relationship should the woman be thought of as a human, with no other qualifier.
And if you have that opposite of desperate attitude, women will respond positively. I walked around with a mindset of a regular, caring guy and got nowhere for years...I decided to channel my Gray Passenger, and women responded positively.
It does say something about the female species that it wasn't until I embraced my ASPD that I got anywhere with them.
So wise. It's true. You know, I'm reading a book written by a stand-up comedian, and when people ask him how to "train" to be a good comic, he tells them, "Your teacher is your audience, and failure (falling flat on stage) is the only way to learn what works in comedy and what doesn't." When I read that, it dawned on me that that is the way all of life works.
It's hard to appreciate, but it is a reverse process from other areas where people get good at. For example, someone good at sports excels which leads to more practice and eventually professional status.
For the comedian and also dating, it's the reverse, which makes it really an avenue for really dedicated people.
And I cannot comprehend guilt. I just do not, and cannot understand how people can regret doing something that didn't harm them. Why? My brain is wired that way.
Likewise, some people are just wired to be more sensitive to rejection than others and have more anxiety than other men. Their wiring is just different as well.
I must confess, a similar thing happened to me. I finally gave in and listened to the voice in my head and started talking to a girl. She told me to buzz off...and I laughed in her face, called her a fat expletive (she wasn't fat, but girls hate that) She said I was just mad because I wouldn't sleep with her, and I said I would catch the herpes she got from when her step father raped her. That I think got to her.
That was my first real rejection...and I turned it around. The next girl to reject me was nice and I was nice to her back. Usually when a woman brushes a man off they are polite about it, I realized. Finally I actually succeeded a couple times.
But the worst part is, I only succeeded when I listened to the voice in my head, commanding me to hunt for a mate. No romance, no nice guyness...I just went forward, stroking the egos of the females, and it paid off. I let my "dark passenger" take control, and it worked...okay, maybe not my "dark passenger", because I didn't kill anyone, but rather my "gray passenger".
I agree 100% As awful as it is to say, the best advice I ever heard from dating was this: until she says she cares about you, treat all women as "human kleenexes" "Human", in that it doesn't pay to hurt them or do anything bad to them, but "kleenex" as in they are ultimately disposable and another one is guaranteed to show up right after that one is cast aside. Only when one actually has a relationship should the woman be thought of as a human, with no other qualifier.
And if you have that opposite of desperate attitude, women will respond positively. I walked around with a mindset of a regular, caring guy and got nowhere for years...I decided to channel my Gray Passenger, and women responded positively.
It does say something about the female species that it wasn't until I embraced my ASPD that I got anywhere with them.
I can understand what you are saying, and it remind me of the PUA (pick up artist community), however; I do not relate myself in that regard, and the way that I go about things is different. My problem is that the pick up artist community really objectifies women and does not hold them into much regard. I'm not sure if it is classified as 'mysogny' however, there is a noticable lack of respect that is there. A lot of men on those forums are typically very angry men, and nearly all of them hold the mindset of anger, most likely stemming from rejection from women. This in turn circles around and gives them validation for their anger. It's a vicious and disgusting circle quite frankly. It's not a surprise why this really scares some women, and I think when you look at this weird 'cult community' (which Elliot was somehow part of), it is easy to see why some women hold these views.
For myself personally, I'm not going to lie. I'm not looking to date, and I do have the desire to sleep with many attractive women as possible. That may change later on, but for right now that is my position. With that said, I am respectful to all the women I meet. I don't ever lead them on and I tell them from the beginning what I am looking for. Some appreciate it and decline, others are comfortable with it, but at any rate, I am honest from the beginning. Nearly all the women I have encountered have been appreciative that I am direct in this regard. If they are not interested that's fine too, I can respect that. Even the women that I have been with, if they were the ones that came over, I always call them to make sure they get home, and one today I called this evening just to see how their day went. I don't ever leave any woman worse than I met them, and I don't want them to feel like a wh--e either and they don't because I am respectful to them. I treat them just like I would with any of my friends. I don't feel 'entitled' to sex, I understand it is a mutual thing, and that is fine with me. I actually had someone on the phone that I was talking to tonight tell me it's a huge relief to meet a guy who is nice, but isn't a "needy weirdo". Ouch. The irony is that women want sex just like men do. A lot of them I have found are very open to casual sex as well. What they have a problem with is how men treat them when trying to go about it like cat calling, whistling, yelling "hey baby" or other stupid things like that.
I went out to the bars with one of my friends awhile back and we were both pretty intoxicated. He kept texting someone throughout the night, and I assumed it was a girl or maybe a friend. By the end of the night, when we got back he began talking on the phone with the person he was texting which was a girl he had been with. She was clearly upset, and (despite being extremely intoxicated), I recall that she was crying as well. I think he eventually just said to her that she's crazy and he's gotta go and hung up. I asked him what was that all about. He said that it was a woman that he had been with and she "got the wrong impression". I asked him if he was upfront with her (which I already knew the answer), and he didn't say anything. It was evident to me that he clearly lead her on then dumped her. I let him have it and I thought about that for a few days. It really pissed me off.
It's hard to appreciate, but it is a reverse process from other areas where people get good at. For example, someone good at sports excels which leads to more practice and eventually professional status.
For the comedian and also dating, it's the reverse, which makes it really an avenue for really dedicated people.
So true. The trick, I think, is being patient enough and dedicated enough to accept that whatever it was failed, and try a new technique, rather than think the world owes us and is obligated to solve our problems.
Thinking back, I know I didn't do any of that consciously. For example, when I was younger, I constantly interrupted people when they were talking because I got all excited about my own (brilliant LOL) thoughts. It took me a long time but I finally realized that I was actually interrupting them! (Nowadays that amazes me that I didn't realize I was interrupting what they were saying). Anyway, I don't interrupt people now if I can avoid it. Unless, that is, I'm in a Mediterranean country, where everyone talks constantly and interruption is de rigueur.
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