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Well, from a woman's point of view if she is unable to be with the person she likes, there is a desire that is unfulfilled, and she has to also decide what is best for her. Everyone who wants someone, doesn't "get" them. In fact, I'd say most people don't. What I do think is unreasonable is to visualize it as a loss when one is unable to have the person one lusts after. Maybe that's part of the entitlement generation or something, to think that one ought to have the person one lusts after or view it as a great loss. That's just not the way life works or has ever worked and is the height of unreasonableness.
The difference is, again, women can always have SOMEONE, while many men don't have that option.
Yes, of course!!! Women can always have the freaks, the wackos, and the losers if they can't get anyone better. But so can men. Men can have the freaks, the wackos and the losers, if they can't get anyone better. But you don't want or like that, do you?
Originally Posted by victorianpunk 99% of women like a man who's a bit of a jerk. Nice guys really do finish last, even with nice girls. I use the "game" to reel them in, and then decide if I want to keep them or throw them back in the water, so to speak.
And that is NOT the way "people socialize," nor is that real life at all. It is merely the imaginings of men who just can't get their life together in any way; an excuse these men make up to make it appear that it's not their own personal failures, but something women are doing to make them miss out on life.
Then why oh why is it I only had any luck when I admitted to not caring and started acting like a jerk? That IS the way people socialize! You can whine and moan all you want, but the evidence, again, is clear:
Yes, of course!!! Women can always have the freaks, the wackos, and the losers if they can't get anyone better. But so can men. Men can have the freaks, the wackos and the losers, if they can't get anyone better. But you don't want or like that, do you?
No, men cannot. How do I know? BECAUSE THE STUDY I JUST LINKED TO SAID THE EXACT OPPOSITE.
You do realize social sciences and psychology exist for a reason, right? You can whine and moan all you want to, but the science is what counts, not wishes or personal anecdotes.
The study proves that women can always find sex if they want to but (straight) men can't, EVEN if they lower their standards. That's the science. DEAL WITH IT.
I've met my fair share of women who also have an entitlement attitude just like a lot of these men I am critical about. With these women, their entitlement is usually in the form of a man's resources (money/financial), or attention.....like there is this expectation that a complete stranger is supposed to buy a woman a drink (which I never do).
Another form is when women pull the "let's just be friends" with nice men. What "let's just be friends" translated is "You are not my first option, but I want to keep you around as a back-up if things don't work out with the guy I am pursing."
Or it can be translated as "I don't really like you romantically, however; I do enjoy the attention you give me including your time, and I do not want to reciprocate anything on my behalf to meet your relationship desire, but I simultaneously enjoy your time and energy."
Women are not entitled to anything, just like men are not either. Through my own experience, I have found there is NO shortage of women who are more than willing to waste a man's time (TKs- tire kickers). I usually spot them pretty early on.
No, friends means friends. There is no back-up option. I do not see friendship as taking energy away from anyone, but as a positive thing for both parties. If the girl is selfish or a user, why go after her in the first place?
One of my lifelong friendships has been with a guy who liked me through high school but we were not romantically compatible. Hope I'm still not wasting his time all these years later. I have been more supportive of him than he has been of me, therefore with me giving more "resources and energy", I guess. I don't see it that way, I like him and treat him as I would any good friend.
She lashed out after I started a polite conversation. Simply answering with single word answers or even just "I'm not interested in talking to you" would have made me politely walk away...calling me a "midget a-hole" when I simply asked her if she lived in the same general area as I did because I thought I'd seen her around is uncalled for, hence I replied in kind.
Well . . . yes she did start with the nastiness. I think you amped it up far worse than what she did, though. If what you're describing here is how it all went down, I still think you went overboard. When you do that, it makes you look weak, defensive. Let her be the witch, while you act with class. What's wrong with taking the higher road?
Quote:
Nice guys really do finish last, even with nice girls. I use the "game" to reel them in, and then decide if I want to keep them or throw them back in the water, so to speak.
Nope, not with truly nice girls. Of course we would be talking about nice guys, not guys who merely think they're nice.
A bit of abrasiveness or brashness might catch someone's attention at first, but being a jerk (the way some of these PUA types define it) isn't a way to keep someone of true character.
I have social anxiety and generalized anxiety. I have a terrible time introducing myself to people on a normal basis.
And yet, I usually talk to people at concerts. When I saw Janet Jackson, people were coming up and giving me claps on the back, because I wore a Michael shirt. When I saw Iron Maiden, I was talking to two different couples around me, about our favorite Maiden albums/songs. And last night, at the concert I went to, I talked to two cute girls who were next to me.
Now, this hasn't led to out of concert friendships. But at least I can say I tried. When did Rodger try? Hello isn't really that hard of a word to say (and I say this as someone who gets nervous around people I don't know.)
You feel anxious and get tongue-tied around people, so at a concert, where everyone is relaxed, having fun and focused on the band, your anxiety lessens somewhat. It's probably easier to talk to people because it's not strictly one-on-one and the focus isn't on the conversation as much as the shared experience.
Rodger didn't try that because he was not held back by shyness or anxiety. Rather, his thought processes weren't reality-based. He looked at a group of people having fun and believed they were automatically rejecting him. I briefly looked at his manifesto and he talks about seeing a group of young men and women goofing off in a park and almost immediately began to consider them some sort of enemy who had something he wanted. So he loaded a supersoaker with orange juice and sprayed them. His thought wasn't, "I wish I could hang out with them but I'm too shy to say anything," but rather "They hate me and so I'm going to get revenge on them."
Rodger was not a socially awkward guy. He was insane and lashed out at perceived enemies.
But here's the thing, Marlow. These men in PUA and all those hate groups don't just hate women, they hate men and envy them for being able to date women - keep in mind that that Elliot monster didn't just shoot at and kill women. He shot at and killed men too because he detested men for whatever the men had that he couldn't get without making an effort. He felt he should not have to make any effort or be like ordinary people. He should have everything, and without lifting a finger. His mom should be rich, so he could be rich, he should get girls who were beyond his capacity to have, etc. These people have a sense of entitlement from here to Zanzibar, and are unwilling to make any sort of effort because they just don't feel like it.
Leaving Rodger out of the equation for a minute because his mental illness made him an outlier even in the PUA/MRA groups, I think that the "regular" men who frequent those sites feel like they're being slighted, and thus feel entitled, because their perceptions are not based in reality. They have rigid views of women and project thoughts and feelings onto them that have nothing to do with the women themselves. Women are only acceptable if they fill X, Y and Z critera. Women reject them because of reasons A, B and C. They come to these conclusions based on discussions among themselves and not based on any real knowledge of women at all. I'm curious to know what percentage of posters on those sites would say they have a comfortable, friendly relationship with any woman at all--mother, sister, cousin, friend. My guess is that very few of them would say that because they view women as "other" and in many cases as the enemy.
And yes, their hate and envy extends to men, too, but again, it's not based on reality. A common refrain is that women gravitate to men who treat them poorly and that all men who date successfully are jerks. Reality does not bear that out. I'm middle-aged and most of my friends have married and some have divorced. The vast majority of them are nice people married to nice people.
While I have been shocked at some of the attitudes of entitlement expressed on here, mostly regarding all the things women and society should do to alleviate this perceived problem suffered by some men, IMO, it all comes back to a fundamental misunderstanding of women and of the attributes and characteristics that make for a good relationship. If the PUA/MRA guys could look beyond their limited experience and get off the computer, they would have a much better chance of learning what it takes to attract a woman and create and maintain a romantic relationship. It's not what they think.
People need to stop allowing others to own them. I've read guys who have gotten shot down in a bar/club, and shot down by a "nice girl" who is polite, as well as not so nice. What people tend to forget, is sometimes a woman just like a guy, will go out to try to get out of a funk. A bad day at work, breakup with significant other, breakdown of a car...whatever the reason, they may be having the worst day in their life, when you approach them. 99% of the time, they are kind, but that one night, after getting approached 20 times, you are the 21st, and become the last straw. So she lashes out....how does that make you feel? Like crap, so now you have a bad attitude, and it probably ruins the rest of the night. Why are you so mad? It's not your problem that their car broke down, or that their bf/gf broke up with them, or even your problem, that they lost their job. So if it's not your problem, why are you so mad? Are you that overly sensitive that you are feeling their same pain? No, you are being owned by their words.....
Men and women get owned all the time, being able to recognize it, and act accordingly, will make your life a lot simpler. How do you act accordingly? Well I'd say to not let things bother you, if you are truly not an instigator in the moment. If you are not nice, and get a rude reaction, then sorry, you deserve it. If you are being polite, and get a nasty reaction, that's their problem, not yours, so turn and walk away. And spend very little time trying to figure out why they reacted that way. Why would you do that? Because it's not your problem, it never was.
Here's a question....do you think Elliot Rodger would have had as much hatred for women, if it was his father who was Asian, and his mother Caucasian? He hated Asians, yet his mother, who would set play dates for him, who bought his BMW, blah blah, was Asian, that must have caused some conflict in his head. It's weird how he never blames his parents, for the way they raised him.....He blames everyone else for his misery, but never blames the very people who could have helped him with all his demons...
Then why oh why is it I only had any luck when I admitted to not caring and started acting like a jerk? That IS the way people socialize! You can whine and moan all you want, but the evidence, again, is clear:
Research has revealed that more men than women possess the Dark Triad personality traits of narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellism. The hallmarks of narcissism include dominance, a sense of entitlement, and a grandiose self-view. Studies overwhelmingly show that narcissism is greater in men, even across cultures. Moreover, it is believed that narcissism may advance short-term mating in men, as it involves “a willingness and ability to compete with one’s own sex, and to repel mates shortly after intercourse.” In line with these capabilities, the authors note, narcissists are adept at beginning new relationships, and identifying multiple mating opportunities. They are also less monogamous.
Psychopathy is comprised of callousness, a lack of empathy, and antisocial, erratic behavior. It also lends itself to success in short-term mating, through a moral deficit and interpersonal hostility. Psychopaths have also been found to exhibit superficial charm, deceit, and a sexually-exploitative interpersonal stance. Machiavellianism is comprised of duplicity, insincerity and extraversion. The manipulative, coercive, and opportunistic ways of these individuals are also advantageous in short-term mating; studies do reveal that Machiavellians have been found to be more promiscuous.
In order to investigate this question, Carter and his team presented 128 female undergraduates with the descriptions of two types of male characters: Dark Triads and controls. The high Dark Triad self- description encompassed traits from the "Dirty Dozen" measure, which includes: a desire for attention, admiration, favors, and prestige; the manipulation, exploitation, deceit and flattery of others; a lack of remorse, morality concerns and sensitivity, and cynicism. (The ‘Dirty Dozen’ is a condensed version of the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, Mach-IV, and Psychopathy Scale-III). The control self-description purposefully matched the high Dark Triad description, but it dropped out the dark personality traits.
Here's my response:
Men prefer bad girls. They prefer women who dress very suggestively, seek attention 24/7, flirt very easily and indiscriminately, enjoy going from sex partner to sex partner, are narcissistic, and have sex very soon after meeting.
Bad boys and bad girls do not necessarily make great significant others, great mates, or great spouses. They are simply the clowns of society, and serve a very important purpose: attention-getting and entertainment. Are these the sort of characters we want to bring home to our families, and the kind that our families will welcome with kisses and open arms? HELL NO.
As for why you received attention when you were less caring. Depends on what you mean by less caring. Did you mean that you slapped some woman or laughed in her face and said, "I can't see you today. I'm going out with someone else hahahaha"? Or did you mean that you were not texting and calling every 5 minutes and desperately spying on her to see whom she was with? Which one?
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