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Is this man significantly older than you? Is he older than his wife? What is her reaction to his hugging and grabbing you?
A mutual hug is one thing, but what you describe sounds extremely controlling and somewhat threatening. Could this man have picked up on your concern for the little girl through your facial expression when you saw the pictures, perhaps, and was the hands-on-the-shoulders bit a reaction to that?
Can you tell us what sort of club this is? If your husband is a member, was he with you when these incidents occurred?
I dont care the situation, at any time you dont want a stranger to touch you, you should clearly communicate that. You can be clever and say "only my husband can put his arms around me. You can wave hi from over there." or you can put your palm into his face and say "dont hug me. I dont like that." Wrist-grabbing might get you an elbow or fist into your face, purely out of reflex.
There are women I barely know and they greet or say goodbye with a high-shoulder patting hug,
and there are women I know only tangentially and they like/expect a full-body embrace. Whether or not there is any lower-body-pelvic contact obviously varies on the emotional history, length of time, and intent of the relationship.
It all comes down to is it mutual? If it's not mutual, its a mild form of clothed rape, seeing what you will tolerate.
Can't advise you on the 11-yr-old-kid-in-makeup photos, but sounds creepazoid.
There is no one in the group that I can talk with as I don't know anyone well enough. I am quitting the group again. Strange how this elitist group acts.
Given what you've said, I'm curious what you get out of the group & why you'd care to belong? And, it's something couples go to, yet you go without your husband? If it's something you'd like to be involved with, why not bring your husband with you? Additionally, his appearance would no doubt keep the oddball barnacle hugger at bay, or at least, he'd no doubt speak up on your behalf, if he had too much physical contact with you.
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Would love to see him do it to one of them and see how they react, but that won't happen.
And, that's no doubt, why he chose you. Many of us women over 40 were told as young girls not to make a fuss & to be overly polite to the extent of making ourselves uncomfortable. He senses that in you & that's why you get his attention. His 'I love you' comment shows he's got some boundary issues... but, so do you if you're not able to deflect him, letting him know you're not available for advances. What it means is you need to do a more assertive job in standing up for yourself. He's intruding on you & if you object, do so... VERY clearly.
Even if it's all a misunderstanding (as in, he's not making advances, just being creepy without realizing it), it doesn't matter as he's offputting to you. My way of dealing with uncomfortable situations is to use humor... if someone tried to hug me too long & was making me uneasy, I'd back off when he was coming in for the hug saying, 'Oops, I'm not the kissy-face type... you'll have to come in for a landing somewhere else' & I'd physically move away to prevent the hug. If that didn't work, my loud, 'Okay, that's enough!' would grab the attention of others & he'll surely not like me, but will most likely leave me alone. If your objections are in public, rather than in private on your way to your car, it will more than likely give him the full on message that you don't appreciate his advances. By saying nothing, in his delusional mind, you're encouraging more of the same. The sad thing with creepy people is, if nothing is said, they think it's welcomed.
Do not let him hug you. Do not let him grab your wrists without jerking them away with a loud, 'What are you doing? Stop that now!' After a number of unpleasant experiences, I've learned the hard way to be more outspoken than you. If I'd seen what I felt were inappropriate pics of a young girl, I'd have said so at the table... 'Are those appropriate? I don't want to see anymore'. Also, you said you placed you plate at the table & when you returned, he was there... you could have picked up your plate, said polite 'excuse me's' & moved. I'm not chastising you, I'm only saying that since he's targeting you, it's only you (or your husband if he's by your side) who can speak up & say a loud 'No!'
I've had similar issues & had to deal with them alone & being confrontational, rather than focusing on manners, being kind & not hurting feelings, is the only thing that resolved it. Now, I'm at an age where I just speak up for myself, regardless of how others will react. I don't deserve to feel stalked. Neither do you.
Best of luck. If you decide to remain at the club, let us know how it goes.
Craig, This man is maybe 20 years younger than me, but I only look 10 years older. I really felt and hoped I was past the age of having men look at me and do anything like this, but this is the second time this has happened. The first was a minister who held my hand too long and who put his hand on my hand in the car, and I moved it away. I don't think this club man saw my face when I was looking at the photos and afterwards since he was on the same side of the table. I didn't see that they were there until I sat down again. I was with a group, and it would have been strange to have gotten up and gone to another table as others may have wondered if I was trying to get away from them for some reason.
His wife didn't see him grab my wrists because I think we were alone since I was walking away from the group towards the car. There could have been a few women off to the side away from us. (My vision is getting bad, so I didn't see much around me.) But I looked toward his wife when he first hugged me and wouldn't let go, and it was not a kindly look.
Supbud, I was really afraid to make waves and have people then think I am over reacting. I didn't want to embarrass anyone or even hurt his feelings. Of course now they are hurt, and now people will talk.
Patanjali,
What do I get out of the group? My husband informed me that every summer when my friend nags me to come back to this group, I go, and then I am upset by things the members say and quit again. It is a group with common interests, but it is made up of elitists; I am not an elitist and never felt I fit in, especially when I have sometimes been subjected to their religious and political views. This group is made up of mostly women, but maybe 4 men have joined this group of 25. My husband isn't a joiner but said if he had to come to a meeting to set this guy straight he would. He won't have to though; I have left it again.
Anyway, I left before due to bigoted comments by different members.
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Many of us women over 40 were told as young girls not to make a fuss & to be overly polite to the extent of making ourselves uncomfortable. He senses that in you & that's why you get his attention.
His wife didn't see him grab my wrists... I looked toward his wife when he first hugged me and wouldn't let go, and it was not a kindly look. I was really afraid to make waves and have people then think I am over reacting. I didn't want to embarrass anyone or even hurt his feelings. Of course now they are hurt, and now people will talk.
By not speaking up for yourself, moving away or removing his hands from your wrists/shoulders, you may be giving others the impression that his hugs, grabbing your wrists or putting his hands on your shoulders doesn't bother you at all, so they just ignore you when you say otherwise. They probably are confused by your actions (doing nothing) not matching your words (saying you dislike it... but not to him)... it makes you seem very wishy-washy.
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What do I get out of the group? My husband informed me that every summer when my friend nags me to come back to this group, I go, and then I am upset by things the members say and quit again. It is a group with common interests, but it is made up of elitists; I am not an elitist and never felt I fit in, especially when I have sometimes been subjected to their religious and political views. This group is made up of mostly women, but maybe 4 men have joined this group of 25. My husband isn't a joiner but said if he had to come to a meeting to set this guy straight he would. He won't have to though; I have left it again. Anyway, I left before due to bigoted comments by different members.
You sound really confused. You said nothing about what you get out of the group & why you return. Only 6 sentences of why you don't like it & repeatedly leave.
In any event, can't you meet the 1 friend who repeatedly invites you back alone for lunch & not join a group of 'bigoted elitists, who subject you to their religious & political views'? Why ever consider joining again? Aside from meeting her, I still cannot understand what you get out of it. It must be something... otherwise you'd steer clear after having left the 1st time.
Craig, This man is maybe 20 years younger than me, but I only look 10 years older. I really felt and hoped I was past the age of having men look at me and do anything like this, but this is the second time this has happened. The first was a minister who held my hand too long and who put his hand on my hand in the car, and I moved it away. I don't think this club man saw my face when I was looking at the photos and afterwards since he was on the same side of the table. I didn't see that they were there until I sat down again. I was with a group, and it would have been strange to have gotten up and gone to another table as others may have wondered if I was trying to get away from them for some reason.
His wife didn't see him grab my wrists because I think we were alone since I was walking away from the group towards the car. There could have been a few women off to the side away from us. (My vision is getting bad, so I didn't see much around me.) But I looked toward his wife when he first hugged me and wouldn't let go, and it was not a kindly look.
Supbud, I was really afraid to make waves and have people then think I am over reacting. I didn't want to embarrass anyone or even hurt his feelings. Of course now they are hurt, and now people will talk.
Patanjali,
What do I get out of the group? My husband informed me that every summer when my friend nags me to come back to this group, I go, and then I am upset by things the members say and quit again. It is a group with common interests, but it is made up of elitists; I am not an elitist and never felt I fit in, especially when I have sometimes been subjected to their religious and political views. This group is made up of mostly women, but maybe 4 men have joined this group of 25. My husband isn't a joiner but said if he had to come to a meeting to set this guy straight he would. He won't have to though; I have left it again.
Anyway, I left before due to bigoted comments by different members.
This is so true.
So all of this is currently a non issue until you go back?
If you have left before because of the attitude why do you continue to go back?
Are the members completely different so the dynamic of the group has changed?
sounds like a dysfunctional, creepy church group. Just stop going. If there are any members of the group you would like to visit with, have an occasional get-together and only invite those members.
This guy is a total, boundary-pushing creep. I belonged to a group where we had one of those members. Over the years, he had conditioned his wife to accept and ignore his creepiness through repeated and more invasive "friendliness" toward other members.
This guy is creepy. Always trust your instincts; they will never let you down. He obviously doesn't respect your boundaries, and to give you a full body hug right in front of his wife is a huge red flag. At the least he's what I call a "space invader". I can't stand people like that; they crowd me at the market when they're behind me in line, etc.
I do have one question: What culture is he from? Because many other cultures, especially eastern European, seem to be much more touchy-feely than I'd be comfortable with. If that's the case, maybe he missed your nonverbal cues to back off. (I'm not trying to make excuses; you still need to protect your space and have every right to do so.)
I'm more worried about that little girl, but of course, you can't save the world. Of course, you don't have enough information to know if that guy is any kind of threat to her, and if you don't want to go back then you'll have to let it go and not let it bother you at all. I hope you can do that.
Only his wife and my friend saw him hug me. We were alone when he grabbed my wrists. Those at the table saw me get his hands off me, and so the group wasn't aware that there was a problem until then. When he grabbed my wrists, i got away and when he asked to sit in the car, he could tell I was angry because I said, "No, I am going to sit elsewhere!!!" That didn't stop his putting his hands on my shoulder later that day.
I don't want to say what group it is because I lived in a small town, and people on city data know where I live and one of them lives here too. I joined when I first moved her to meet new people who had things in common with my main hobby. I enjoyed the group and its outings. 4 our of the 25 people have made racist comments, and I am an anti-racist, believe in equal rights for all. I am sensitive to these kinds of comments and left. My friend nagged me to come back and just had to know why I left and then tried to tell me that they were not racists, so I returned. I told the main offender why I left since she asked, and while she was upset, I told her that I liked her anyway but that I wouldn't be in a group where I had to listen to racist comments. I went back because I believed I could stand up to anyone who made racist comments, but when hearing part of the racist comment the other day, I realized that in a car with 5 people I still may not have been able to have said anything without embarrassing everyone. I like many of the members that go there, but I don't think I can take the good with the bad. And the other day it really got bad. I don't always hear their political or religious views, but when I do they really bother me. Think republican/fundamentalist, a few democratic/Catholics, and then me, a socialist democrat with Hindu beliefs living in the Bible Belt where the only open minded church is the Unitarian.
I even thought to tell them all how I feel in a long letter but I am not certain.
At this point I am more worried about the girl too.
I want to thank the others above for their support. And Sandy, he is a Caucasian.
P.S. My club friend came through for once. I told her what happened and she suggested I write the man and his wife a letter telling them how I felt. I went so far as to bring up the photos. And she is going to personally talk to the man who made the racist remark. Being she is now the president I think she feel responsible. So, I will see what happens.
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