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Just wondering where you draw the line of how much intolerance from others you might accept?
Here is an example. Years ago, I severed a long term friendship with a toxic individual after his continued alcoholism seemed to push him into an intolerant and highly judgmental state of mind. "Steve" was an ok guy when he was not drinking, problem was, he was always drinking, it seemed, from breakfast on. And he could not stand anyone having an idea or an opinion that was different than his. This included religion, politics, music but it was worse than that. He could not stand someone liking something he did not like, or not liking something he did. This included types of meals (my wife and I were vegetarian), brands of beer (He only drank budweiser), sports teams, style of clothing....and he let me know in no uncertain terms many times over how "stupid" "People like" me were for liking something he did not like.
SO I had been friends with this guy in high school, and saying goodbye to him was a relief, although he has since told others he does not understand why I want nothing to do with him.
I relaize that he had an appearance, and many mannerisms, like my father. Perhaps some degree of this familiarity led me to be friends with him in the first place. He and I were also both rejects (outcasts) in high school, so we had that much in common.
His idea was that is someone likes something he does not like, then said person is "Stupid" The subject was brands of beer, political election choices, housing choices, career choices, and favorite teams.
On the other hand, my dad was of the opinion that if he did not like something, it should not even exist !
I use the NASCAR example to illustrate this. I have no interest in NASCAR. But I have met many people who do. I have listened to their stories about it, and even tried to watch it a few times, but it just does not interest me. If someone wants to talk about it, fine, but I cannot offer any level of expertise or match their passion, although I respect their point of view.
I would say, "well, I do not follow it or have an interest in it but glad you do."
My Friend mentioned above would just say "NASCAR people are so Stupid"
My dad would say "They shouldn't even have that at all"
I guess I would respond with "Intolerance should not exist at all" But that would be somewhat hypocritical. Far better to function as a self-actualized human and tolerate those who have different interests, not being threatened by it, but instead learning from the differences and variety of tastes.
And in this particular instance, it seems, your issue was not with "Steve's" intolerance, but with his drinking and the related changes in his thoughts/behaviors.
[Don't mind me -- this kind of stuff is what I do for a living.]
Just wondering where you draw the line of how much intolerance from others you might accept?
Here is an example. Years ago, I severed a long term friendship with a toxic individual after his continued alcoholism seemed to push him into an intolerant and highly judgmental state of mind. "Steve" was an ok guy when he was not drinking, problem was, he was always drinking, it seemed, from breakfast on. And he could not stand anyone having an idea or an opinion that was different than his. This included religion, politics, music but it was worse than that. He could not stand someone liking something he did not like, or not liking something he did. This included types of meals (my wife and I were vegetarian), brands of beer (He only drank budweiser), sports teams, style of clothing....and he let me know in no uncertain terms many times over how "stupid" "People like" me were for liking something he did not like.
SO I had been friends with this guy in high school, and saying goodbye to him was a relief, although he has since told others he does not understand why I want nothing to do with him.
I relaize that he had an appearance, and many mannerisms, like my father. Perhaps some degree of this familiarity led me to be friends with him in the first place. He and I were also both rejects (outcasts) in high school, so we had that much in common.
His idea was that is someone likes something he does not like, then said person is "Stupid" The subject was brands of beer, political election choices, housing choices, career choices, and favorite teams.
On the other hand, my dad was of the opinion that if he did not like something, it should not even exist !
I use the NASCAR example to illustrate this. I have no interest in NASCAR. But I have met many people who do. I have listened to their stories about it, and even tried to watch it a few times, but it just does not interest me. If someone wants to talk about it, fine, but I cannot offer any level of expertise or match their passion, although I respect their point of view.
I would say, "well, I do not follow it or have an interest in it but glad you do."
My Friend mentioned above would just say "NASCAR people are so Stupid"
My dad would say "They shouldn't even have that at all"
I guess I would respond with "Intolerance should not exist at all" But that would be somewhat hypocritical. Far better to function as a self-actualized human and tolerate those who have different interests, not being threatened by it, but instead learning from the differences and variety of tastes.
Some people like to do things that seem really unpleasant to others. For example, some like to cuss and I really wish that I didn't have to hear that. It's really unpleasant. Some like to walk around half naked and I really didn't want to see that.
So, to compromise, to make both of us happy,
I think we would need to create certain places where those people could feel free to express themseves with the likeminded people.
And they should act within "normal" parameters when interacting within "normal" population. Well, the standards set by majority I guess for "normal accepted behavior".
That way, our senses are not offended. And they get to express themselves somewhere.
So like creating nude beaches was a good idea. Or creating "smoking and no smoking" areas was good. Creating certain clubs for certain types of expression is good... and so on.
And in this particular instance, it seems, your issue was not with "Steve's" intolerance, but with his drinking and the related changes in his thoughts/behaviors.
[Don't mind me -- this kind of stuff is what I do for a living.]
Regards,
-- Nighteyes
Well, the fact that he showed up drunk at 10AM indicates to me that there is a problem. He also carried a flask of whisky with him everywhere he went, so that he could have a drink whenever he needed one. The guy seemed to enjoy berating others who had a different opinion than he did. And yet years later, he does not understand why I want nothing more to do with him.
The issues with my father were worse. Besides being a "helicopter parent" he was determined to choose everything in life for me, including what I studied in college, where I worked, even what I did as hobbies.
Since he and I do not share similar interests, this created more fights and problems because his mentality was that anything he did not like, should not even exist! His parting words, when I refused to major in the subject he had chosen (Because I really had no interest in it) was...."Aw you're just doing that because you hate me"
I have observed that the lower the self esteem, then the greater the fear of diversity or difference. Both individuals have extremely low self esteem. They do feel threatened by anyone or anything that is outside their minimal sense of comfort and reality. To my father, who feels threatened by a British comedy show, his defense mechanism is to wish that "They would just get rid of that show " My choice would be to change the channel, except that I like a select few British comedies. There is a difference between changing the channel and wishing that a show did not even exist. My friend "Steve" would instead tell me how stupid I am for watching that show and how wrong I am for not liking what he likes. Again, a self esteem issue. He probably would feel that people with different ideas could not be friends, and his most desperate reaction to someone liking a show that he does not like would be a fear-based outburst in the form of ridicule and berating, with hopes that the person would change, thus giving him some inkling of self satisfaction and a minuscule feeling of success, which to those with self esteem issues, probably feels like a major triumph.
Just wondering where you draw the line of how much intolerance from others you might accept?
Here is an example. Years ago, I severed a long term friendship with a toxic individual after his continued alcoholism seemed to push him into an intolerant and highly judgmental state of mind. "Steve" was an ok guy when he was not drinking, problem was, he was always drinking, it seemed, from breakfast on. And he could not stand anyone having an idea or an opinion that was different than his. This included religion, politics, music but it was worse than that. He could not stand someone liking something he did not like, or not liking something he did. This included types of meals (my wife and I were vegetarian), brands of beer (He only drank budweiser), sports teams, style of clothing....and he let me know in no uncertain terms many times over how "stupid" "People like" me were for liking something he did not like.
The problem there is not so much his intolerance as it is his drinking. Most alcoholics wind up behaving in intolerant ways when drunk - doesn't really matter how exactly.
Quote:
SO I had been friends with this guy in high school, and saying goodbye to him was a relief, although he has since told others he does not understand why I want nothing to do with him.
I relaize that he had an appearance, and many mannerisms, like my father. Perhaps some degree of this familiarity led me to be friends with him in the first place. He and I were also both rejects (outcasts) in high school, so we had that much in common.
His idea was that is someone likes something he does not like, then said person is "Stupid" The subject was brands of beer, political election choices, housing choices, career choices, and favorite teams.
Okay, so he never got over the social rejection he experienced in high school and this is his way of coping. It's a defense mechanism, it allows him to reject people who might reject him for the things he likes or doesn't like before they have a chance. Reject them before they reject you and you won't get hurt. Problem is, you wind up rejecting everyone because no one will ever agree with you on every single little thing in life, which means he will wind up alone and still a social reject for the rest of his life.
Maybe instead of simply cutting him out of your life, you should have tried to talk to him about his behavior. Especially since it's related to his alcoholism, which is a big problem. It might not have helped, he might not be ready yet to accept his problems are real problems. And then you would be justified cutting him out of your life because hey, at least you tried to help him. But a true friend should not just abandon them without even trying to help first. You say he wonders why you want nothing to do with him - did you tell him why? Did you explain to him that you're tired of his drinking because the alcohol turns him into a person that you don't like? I know his behavior must seem obvious to you but he probably doesn't see it because he doesn't want to. But maybe a serious talk with his oldest friend is exactly what he needs to realize it - but instead you just disappear without a word.
Cutting him out of my life may have been an expression of my anger, my intolerance even, I did tell him why I was cutting him out. He denied the drinking problem, outright. He told me that he was never drunk around me. Now that is flat out not true, I pointed out his last visit here, how rude and obnoxious he was. Anyone who will have his wife carry around a flask of whiskey in her purse so that it is always handy has, or is enabling a problem. Both are in denial.
I mentioned the abusive things he said to me, calling me stupid, retarded, and constantly arguing about everything. We attended a spring training game, He could not stand the fact that I was not cheering for his team. I pointed out a new prospect that the other team had, a kid who had not played in the majors, got off to a bad start with another team, was traded, played in the winter leagues and looked pretty impressive so far in Spring training. SO this guy takes the prospect sheet, reads it, and then starts yelling at me in front of everyone "You stupid idiot, he had a 6.25 ERA in A League, that is not any good"
The way I see it, friends should not treat friends that way. And anyone who does should not be a friend. Of course, that was but one of the many outbursts he had over the course of the time. And When I mentioned this, a year or two later, he denied any wrong doing and offered no apology.
A year after, a mutual friend says that he saw him, spoke with him, and was told by the rather intoxicated person "I must have made him mad or something" So, he was still drinking, probably still is, and probably still in denial of a problem.
So am I a true friend? I cannot say one way or the other. I can say that I do not want people like that around my kids, which at the time was not an issue because I did not have kids then. I do now. He does not. Do I want someone who acts that way around my family? Of course not, and I told him this. Again, no apology, no discussion, just denial.
It depends upon what sort of intolerance and how it interferes with my life.
I don't care if you think meat is poison and don't eat it. Don't, however, spend a lot of time trying to convince me to give it up. If you (generic you) happen to be over-the-top intolerant of carnivores, then it isn't going to work put.
If someone absolutely can not stand mini-vans, it has very little effect on me, unless he launches into long frequent venomous diatribes-- which is about him being boring and not about him being intolerant.
Racial bigotry is more difficult to be around. But do they keep it to themselves, or do they spew?
I really do have a problem trying to maintain polite interest with a bore, and often intolerant people can be bores, trying to foist their beliefs off on others who aren't interested.
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