Suicidal Thoughts: "Community of People Ready to Help" Elusive (college, attractive)

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

This "community" appears after the person is dead, or at best when the person threatens suicide. At places such as high schools or colleges, the students who get very concerned when they hear that someone is contemplating suicide or worse are happy to let the person eat alone every day. That is until the person says or does something.

I started this thread so as not to derail the thread from which I post, Another suicide in my life. The starter is in need of solace and I didn't want to rob him or her of that. But before I begin, let's say first that now I am happily married, and have a successful law practice so the story doesn't end badly.

I started as a freshman in a prestigious Ivy League school (are there any that aren't prestigious) in the fall of 1975. I was never particularly popular. The school's picturesque gorges, with low-railing bridges were quite attractive to me. While I never totally lacked for acquaintances I was not "the life of the party." I struck out in rushing fraternities that Freshman fall. Add to it a roommate that didn't enjoy showering. That spring was a bit better socially but took a major grade dump in Chemistry, with a D. So much for pre-med.

Fall of sophomore year was atrocious socially. I turned to a close high school friend at another Ivy for advice, Advice on Upcoming Tense 40th High School Reunion, not wanting to create on-campus opportunities for gossip-mongering. No Facebook in 1976. My friend's guidance was excellent but I didn't take it well enough. It also wound up being a burden on my friend. And more disastrous grades that semester, saved from an "F" only by the grace of a college administrator allowing me to drop a course after the add/drop deadline. After switching dorm floors, the spring semester was a move from bad to worse. I was stopped by a campus patrol officer after walking back and forth over one of the bridges I described earlier. I did finish the semester. Next fall, junior year was better but dark thoughts returned in Spring 1978. Like the freshman and sophomore years (and unlike the better fall semester) I often wound up eating alone. Thus my earlier post on the subject.

That year, only after letting people know how isolating life was, did this "community" of people begin showing some real concern. Ironically, none of that would have happened had I not been "shooed" away from group meals at the student dining facilities. Thus my point, that this "community of people ready to stand with them" is at best hard to find, and at worst like a rainbow, chased but never found.

[Dragonmam]

I think the problem is that, at the very time they need the community to step up and help, the person needing the help is at the worst point for asking for it and accepting it. Depression leads to isolation, leading to more depression and the spiral begins. When I, or my kids (high school and college) have reached out to someone because we were concerned, I don't think our offer to help has ever been accepted the first time. It takes a push, and at times, an override, meaning we've reported our concerns to guidance or the counseling center because they situation seems to call for it and the person wouldn't go themselves.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by Dragonmam

I think the problem is that, at the very time they need the community to step up and help, the person needing the help is at the worst point for asking for it and accepting it. Depression leads to isolation, leading to more depression and the spiral begins. When I, or my kids (high school and college) have reached out to someone because we were concerned, I don't think our offer to help has ever been accepted the first time. It takes a push, and at times, an override, meaning we've reported our concerns to guidance or the counseling center because they situation seems to call for it and the person wouldn't go themselves.

In my situation it was the other way around; I was reacting to people telling me that a seat at the campus dining table was "saved" or, when walking over to the dining building from the dorm being told the person I was walking over with was "meeting someone" when in fact they weren't. The concern started only when it really started to get to me and a few people were worried they were about to have a tragedy to deal with.

[Ro2113]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

In my situation it was the other way around; I was reacting to people telling me that a seat at the campus dining table was "saved" or, when walking over to the dining building from the dorm being told the person I was walking over with was "meeting someone" when in fact they weren't. The concern started only when it really started to get to me and a few people were worried they were about to have a tragedy to deal with.

Well let me recap this just to make sure I understand:

Basically what your saying OP is that you tried to reach out to people but they made excuses as to why they were avoiding you and only came to be concerned when they seen you were nearing your breaking point.

So do you feel that the only reason these people became concern is that they would've had a tragedy on their hands which would be an inconvenience to them?

You don't feel they genuinely cared about you?

I can see how frustrating that type of alienation is. It's probably the main reason it seems that people who commit suicide do so without warning. (at least to the inattentive person).

For a person truly contemplating suicide there is nothing feels worse then getting blown off when trying to reach out to someone which is probably why people at that point don't reach out.

In this situation OP maybe these individuals you speak of learned a lesson from their experience with you.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by Ro2113

Well let me recap this just to make sure I understand:

Basically what your saying OP is that you tried to reach out to people but they made excuses as to why they were avoiding you and only came to be concerned when they seen you were nearing your breaking point.

You summarized quite well. I repped the post.

Originally Posted by Ro2113

So do you feel that the only reason these people became concern is that they would've had a tragedy on their hands which would be an inconvenience to them?

You don't feel they genuinely cared about you?

Given my subsequent experience with some of these people, there is no set of facts under which they had any higher than a low level of concern for me. In fact, one of them, who died a few years ago from the years-later effects of his drug abuse at the college, had a rather bitter and unprovoked falling out with me the summer after he was so apparently concerned. That person, myself and a few other allegedly "concerned" people used various "pharmaceutical" products in what was then called the "space academy" (two adjoining dorm rooms where both beds were shoved into one room and the other room was open for partying). The summer following that difficult spring of 1978 I was taking courses at the college, about four hours distant from New York City. I stayed overnight at his apartment on a visit back to the City, and gave him a lift north the next day. At the end of the ride, after almost four hours of "small talk" he stated as a fact that I told my mother about the "space academy", and that my mother told a mutual friend of his mother's and his mother found out from the mutual friend. I am convinced that the purpose of the accusation was to shut down communication since it is illogical that I would have wanted my mother to know of the pharmaceutical abuses. He then went to the same law school that I did and barely talked to me. When I reached out for him years later, his secretary called me back to find out "the agenda for my call." Suffice to say I didn't bother. About three years later he died.

And that person is but one example. Suffice to say that his "concern" was based upon the fact that if a member of the "space academy" died or committed suicide there would be very serious consequences for the remaining people. As it is a freshman that year who was a member of the "space academy (we were juniors) was expelled for academic reasons and the "academy" was told to lower its profile by the dorm's head resident, who was a sometime visitor.

Another apparently concerned person who went to a different college, but with whom I went to high school, cut off communication as soon as it was clear that I wasn't about to kill myself. Since I wasn't looking for pity (and never do) I answered honestly about my status; that with my grades working higher and my receipt of a stellar LSAT score of 735 (out of 800) the agenda had shifted.

Originally Posted by Ro2113

I can see how frustrating that type of alienation is. It's probably the main reason it seems that people who commit suicide do so without warning. (at least to the inattentive person).

This is a subject for another post but suffice to say that in high school before college and law school after college there was similar jockeying for informal membership in social groupings, particularly for meals and social drinking.

Originally Posted by Ro2113

For a person truly contemplating suicide there is nothing feels worse then getting blown off when trying to reach out to someone which is probably why people at that point don't reach out.

See above. Getting "blown off" was a constant. And I was not particularly boring or unattractive to talk to, just not part of an "in crowd."

Originally Posted by Ro2113

In this situation OP maybe these individuals you speak of learned a lesson from their experience with you.

Not a chance. In fact in later years when I ran into some of these peole I brought the matters up in a courteous way. They didn't remember anything and I can't believe my memory is that much better.

There was one exception however. I was thrown out of a sleepaway camp during the summer of 1972 for reasons that were definitely largely my fault.

When I went back for a reunion during the summer of 1983 I ran into some of the people I had bunked with. When I brought up that summer he said he was "afraid to mention it." I said not to worry, that he had done absolutely nothing wrong, and in fact had tried to help. That time it was me.