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I have a suicidal friend whose issue is grieving everything he feels he missed out on. He's in his 40s and has no family except for his mother, who he is not close to. He is self employed and feels stuck in it but he has no motivation to do anything else. He feels his life is over - he missed out on relationships, children, happiness. Other friends and I have tried to make him see his life is NOT over but it appears useless. He does not like living here but can't afford to move. He says he's seen many therapists over the years but always hits a wall - there's nothing that can be done to improve his situation (according to him).
So what makes a severely depressed person come around and find a reason to live again? (How do you change their mindset?) Anyone ever witness that happening? I pointed out to him he's not going to find the love of his life while he's depressed...who would be attracted to that! Is his only hope to find a good therapist?
I pointed out to him he's not going to find the love of his life while he's depressed...who would be attracted to that!
Well that's the worse thing you could've said to anyone with depression...
I know people with severe depression can come around and feel better but it takes a lot of work...
You can encourage them to keep going to therapy, to not stop taking their medication (Many depressed people stop taking it when they start feeling better) and be supportive. Let him know that therapy takes a lot of trial and error but he can find the right therapist.
Do NOT tell anyone with depression that they're unlovable the way they are now. Instead remind them that the way they feel like is not their fault, that it's their brain playing tricks on them and that they can recover and find joy in living again.
The good news is, your friend is talking to you about his situation. It signals that all hope is not lost.
It's never good to play counsellor to a suicidally depressed person, as you're bound to make mistakes that could potentially be damaging. The best thing you can do, in addition to what Arigarisha suggested re: therapy, is to make it clear to him that though he may not have a partner, children, or close relationships with family, he does have friends like you who value and care for him. Tell him why he's important to you, and that your world is better for having him in it. That sort of positive messaging won't cure his depression, but it reinforces that his life does matter. You can take walks with him, as exercise elevates mood. You can engage him in activities that distract him from rumination. All the while, gently encourage him to get help.
As for the question of what changes a person's mind when they're on the brink, that's as individual as each person's depression. I have a friend who was given a pet bird as a gift when she was suicidally depressed, and it gave her something to nurture and care for to the point that it kept her alive through her crisis. She simply didn't want to abandon it. I know someone else who got involved with an online support forum for people with depression, one night when he was afraid he was very close to suicide, and found comfort in a community of understanding others. And I know yet another person who started reading a long series of books, and was determined to finish it. There are as many stories of what 'saved' a person as there are people who chose to live at a critical moment. Ultimately, that will has to come from within.
That said, it is human nature to want to live. Understanding that one's clinical depression deprives them of their ability to see things clearly is crucial. If a person can truly grasp that their ideations are caused by an illness that is in fact treatable, they have social support, and they have access to help, then there is hope.
I don't think you did the wrong thing in telling your friend that nobody's going to want him all depressed. It may be the kick in the pants he needs to do something about his depression.
A depressed person needs to want to get better. It's immensely difficult. They have no energy and hardly any desire to force themselves to do the things that will make them better. Medication really helps, but it can take a while to find the right one and the right dosage. And then they need to learn some things about what will make them feel better. They can be really simple things like taking a shower, going for a walk, washing some dishes or doing some laundry - just accomplishing something, even something small. Writing in a journal, listening to music, aromatherapy. And maybe he needs to get out if he works at home - take a class, go to the gym, etc.
Not all therapy is helpful. A therapist who can teach new skills is the best, not one who wants the depressed person to delve into why they're depressed. They need tools and skills. Like learning how to change the negative thinking that is on a loop - "you're a loser, no woman will want you, there's nothing to look forward to..."
Cognitive behavior therapy is great. It teaches skills like arguing with those negative thoughts. "You're a loser." "Oh really, what are the facts? You're a successfully self-employed person." For instance.
It's tiring, but it can work to get someone out of their funk. But, really, I think the bottom line is the person has to want to feel better. Some people don't. They thrive on whining and are just cup-half-empty people.
But, if he wants to feel better, and will listen to you, I'd highly suggest he finds (or maybe you could help him find) a therapist familiar with cognitive behavior therapy, and who can give him some tools for helping him feel better and change his habits.
Thank you! He is so stubborn it gets so frustrating, and I am sick of his pity party. I am a realist, and I'm not going to sugar coat things for him. I have given him compliments, I told him that owning his own business, a home, and multiple vehicles is very commendable, few people in this area can say they've done as well by themselves.
I understand as well as any depressed person how hard it is to motivate yourself. So I was trying to get him to make a plan and take small steps. He seems opposed to any sort of plan though. And he is indecisive on a lot of things. I asked him if he would see another therapist, or try meditation, and the answer is "maybe." He asks a lot of questions regarding the group we run together, and when I answer him he still doesn't take action. Keeps asking the same question. I feel like saying "if you don't want my advice, don't ask."
Dealing with him in any other format but face-to-face is increasingly frustrating so I will try a face to face discussion in the next month or so. And based on that, I will either take steps to help him or I will give up.
Keeps asking the same question. I feel like saying "if you don't want my advice, don't ask."...Dealing with him in any other format but face-to-face is increasingly frustrating so I will try a face to face discussion in the next month or so. And based on that, I will either take steps to help him or I will give up.
I would be very careful with this. Plant the seed of seeking professional help and then reduce your role. His seeming to "want...advice" could quickly turn to him misinterpreting something you say into a validation of bad decision of his own. It's a long quote, but in "An Absurd Reasoning" Albert Camus writes:
"...we are concerned here...with the relationship between individual thought and suicide. An act like this is prepared within the silence of the heart, as is a great work of art. The man himself is ignorant of it. One evening he pulls the trigger or jumps. Of an apartment-building manager who had killed himself I was told that he had lost his daughter five years before, that he had greatly changed since, and that the experience had “undermined” him. A more exact word cannot be imagined. Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined.
"The worm is in man’s heart. That is where it must be sought. One must follow and understand this fatal game that leads from lucidity in the face of existence to flight from light. There are many causes for a suicide, and generally the most obvious ones were not the most powerful. Rarely is suicide committed (yet the hypothesis is not excluded) through reflection. What sets off the crisis is almost always unverifiable. Newspapers often speak of “personal sorrows” or of “incurable illness.” These explanations are plausible. But one would have to know whether a friend of the desperate man had not that very day addressed him indifferently. He is the guilty one. For that is enough to precipitate all the rancors and all the boredom still in suspension."
Sometimes therapy is not enough. If he has seen many (qualified) therapists and is still deeply depressed enough to be thinking about suicide then he should consider antidepressants. Maybe only for a few months until he is improved enough to be able to take ACTION that his therapists are recommending or maybe a lifetime. There are few real downsides to medication - and a major upside is that it may literally save his life. Some meds take a few weeks to kick in but others are faster. He may be able to consult his GP but it'd be better to talk to a psychiatrist.
Thank you! He is so stubborn it gets so frustrating, and I am sick of his pity party. I am a realist, and I'm not going to sugar coat things for him. I have given him compliments, I told him that owning his own business, a home, and multiple vehicles is very commendable, few people in this area can say they've done as well by themselves.
I understand as well as any depressed person how hard it is to motivate yourself. So I was trying to get him to make a plan and take small steps. He seems opposed to any sort of plan though. And he is indecisive on a lot of things. I asked him if he would see another therapist, or try meditation, and the answer is "maybe." He asks a lot of questions regarding the group we run together, and when I answer him he still doesn't take action. Keeps asking the same question. I feel like saying "if you don't want my advice, don't ask."
Dealing with him in any other format but face-to-face is increasingly frustrating so I will try a face to face discussion in the next month or so. And based on that, I will either take steps to help him or I will give up.
It sounds perfect. You just let him know you care, give him resources, and then tell him he needs to take action if he still wants to spend time with you because it's no fun hanging around someone who complains but takes no action. Because it's true that misery loves company. And if you just keep babying him, you're basically enabling him to stay the way he is, in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RP2C
I would be very careful with this. Plant the seed of seeking professional help and then reduce your role. His seeming to "want...advice" could quickly turn to him misinterpreting something you say into a validation of bad decision of his own. It's a long quote, but in "An Absurd Reasoning" Albert Camus writes:
"...we are concerned here...with the relationship between individual thought and suicide. An act like this is prepared within the silence of the heart, as is a great work of art. The man himself is ignorant of it. One evening he pulls the trigger or jumps. Of an apartment-building manager who had killed himself I was told that he had lost his daughter five years before, that he had greatly changed since, and that the experience had “undermined” him. A more exact word cannot be imagined. Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined.
"The worm is in man’s heart. That is where it must be sought. One must follow and understand this fatal game that leads from lucidity in the face of existence to flight from light. There are many causes for a suicide, and generally the most obvious ones were not the most powerful. Rarely is suicide committed (yet the hypothesis is not excluded) through reflection. What sets off the crisis is almost always unverifiable. Newspapers often speak of “personal sorrows” or of “incurable illness.” These explanations are plausible. But one would have to know whether a friend of the desperate man had not that very day addressed him indifferently. He is the guilty one. For that is enough to precipitate all the rancors and all the boredom still in suspension."
Oh baloney. Someone who seriously wants to commit suicide will do it. They may blame that person for sending them over the edge. It may be the excuse they were looking for, but nobody is to blame for someone's suicide other than the person who did it.
When someone is hospitalized for major depression, they are not allowed to stay in bed and sleep. The staff gives them a full schedule of classes that they must attend, pretty much one right after another. No excuses. And they have to take their meds. No excuses. No babying. They're told to talk about it in group or at their next shrink appointment. And if they act crazy, they are put in the locked ward. When people have to behave, they usually do.
I had a friend who would call me threatening to kill herself. I'd run over and listen to her and baby her all night long, then drag myself to work in the morning. I was getting sick and tired of it, but didn't know what to do. The last time she did it, I called the suicide crisis line and asked for advice. I said it seemed more like a game of needing attention than any serious attempt to kill herself. They agreed and advised me to call the cops to go check on her, and tell her that in the future, I would call the cops to check on her and that I hoped she continued to see her shrink, but I was not qualified to deal with suicidal people.
When the cops showed up, she answered the door completely sane and said nothing was wrong. Then she called me up furious, screaming at me. That's when I told her the above, that I'd call the cops for her, etc., but I'm not qualified to help her.
She never killed herself. But, if she would have chosen to, it would have been her decision. She had plenty of resources and was an adult.
That is such a power game to threaten someone that they'll kill themself if someone else doesn't do what they want them to do. My answer would be, "I hope you don't, but if you do, that's your decision. Your behavior is not my responsibility."
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